Ending the recession

[Velociryx]

Well Dan...I'm sorry you and I disagree, but the fact is...we have in excess of 4 million miles of roads in this country and not nearly enough money budgeted to maintain them.

A group of engineers who surveyed the roads in this country backed that up.

What happens when you build something and don't maintain it is that it begins to degrade.

This should not surprise anyone, IMO.

Again tho, you are free to disagree.

-=Vel=-

[DanS]

Adam Smith has been very detailed about this subject. It would be instructive for you to review his posts. For example...

Most estimates of our infrastructure needs are too high. These estimates are usually generated by asking a bunch of self-interested experts, such as construction contractors, how much infrastructure we “need”. If you ask them how much we “need” and are actually willing to pay for at the going rate of interest, the answer is a lot lower. If you actually do some economic analysis, the answer is lower still.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5460487&postcount=88

[Velociryx]

I'm not saying that the estimates are perfect, I'm saying there are problems, and engineers agree.

Problems to fix = jobs.

Good thing in a recession.

It's okay if you disagree tho, or if you think the money could be better spent elsewhere.

Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last.

-=Vel=-

[DanS]

No, I'm not saying that we disagree. I'm saying that you are wrong.

[notyoueither]

I just got back from a trip to Edmonton, two lane all the way, in the US it would be an interstate at least 4 lanes, as it is one of the primary routes used by truckers.

Bull****!

[Velociryx]

No, I'm not saying that we disagree. I'm saying that you are wrong.

And you're certainly entitled to that opinion.

You find sources that agree with your POV. Someone else finds sources that agree with theirs. Does this sound familiar?

Ahhh...life on 'poly.

Carry on.

-=Vel=-

[DinoDoc]

How much did Japan's edifice complex during its lost decade help with its recession?

[Velociryx]

How much did Japan's edifice complex during its lost decade help with its recession?

I don't know.

How much did it hurt?

I don't know that there's data either way. *shrugs*

-=Vel=-

[DinoDoc]

Given the fact that there is no data to say that such projects have the stimulus effect being promoted I don't see the point in refering to them in a stimulus bill. I also don't see the point in going on a orgasmic spending spree on "shovel ready" projects that are irrelevent and could make the "crisis" being hyped here worse.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4302578.html?nav=RSS20

[Velociryx]

Well, DD...given the fact that this issue has never before happened in history, and there's nothing at all comparable to the scale of it, and further, no data pointing definitively to ANY way out, let's just not do anything and see how many millions wind up out of a job. Let the market decide and if it hurts a few tens of millions, well...too bad for them, right? (oh, but let's see to it that the banks have plenty of dough to hand out those bonuses! Can't have them worried about their future) -- ps. that particular comment wasn't aimed at you...I know full well you were against the giveaway there too.

Would that be better?

I would rather spend some money putting people to work in the hopes of jumpstarting the economy, and it would appear that I am not alone in that.

As ever, I expect there will be those who disagree, and I'm okay with that.

Are you?

-=Vel=-

[DinoDoc]

Well, DD...given the fact that this has never before happened in history, and there's no data pointing to ANY way out, let's just not do anything and see how many millions wind up out of a job?

False choices are meaningless Vel.

[snoopy369]

I'm not saying that the estimates are perfect, I'm saying there are problems, and engineers agree.

Problems to fix = jobs.

Good thing in a recession.

It's okay if you disagree tho, or if you think the money could be better spent elsewhere.

Wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last.

-=Vel=-

The problem is, you're asking ENGINEERS. As in, guys who a) are paid to fix things (ie, would get more work), and b) who think along the lines of infrastructure being a priority more so than the average person. They'll be quite biased.

Myself, I think we definitely should invest more in infrastructure projects, especially now; but probably not as much as the reports suggest, by any means. I'd love to see a lot of small-scale work, such as bridge repair, road repair, etc., that can be done RIGHT NOW, plus a few larger projects in the near future (even if they're not started for six months to a year, the presence of the projects will increase economic activity related to them, as the companies bidding for them and whatnot will be more confident). Increase jobs (stunt unemployment) and get some stuff fixed (even if it's not as vital as would normally get fixed), particularly in the sectors most hard hit by unemployment (construction, and large manufacturing).

[Velociryx]

The problem is, you're asking ENGINEERS. Who better to ask, Snoop?

I mean, If I think I have strep, I'm not going to go ask the plumber, right?

-=Vel=-

And these engineers making these pronouncements...they cann't be sure they'd even LAND a government contract...they might, sure, but they might not.

[Velociryx]

False choices are meaningless Vel.

DD, if you've got all the answers, head to DC and fix it.

If not, then who's to say this won't be effective at the margins where people are hurting the worst?

-=Vel=-

[snoopy369]

The problem is, you're asking ENGINEERS. Who better to ask, Snoop?

I mean, If I think I have strep, I'm not going to go ask the plumber, right?

-=Vel=-

And these engineers making these pronouncements...they cann't be sure they'd even LAND a government contract...they might, sure, but they might not.

If you have a filled pipe, and you call a plumber, and he tells you to rip everything out and repipe the whole building, do you listen to him, or do you get some Drano?