Massive Terract campaign in India

[GePap]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
So if Zionism was secular, why didn't they just carve a nice bit of land out of Eastern Europe for the Jewish State? Why did it have to be Israel?

Beyond what Zevico said, the Zionist movement could simply not have hoped to get land anywhere but in the imperial peripheries of some mayor state of the time - any part of Europe was completely out of consideration because:

1. Every square foot of Europe was already claimed by some other nationality
2. Every square foot of Europe mattered to the balance of power between the great Imperial powers of the time.

For the Jewish state to be born in Europe would have meant that it would have to be born subordinate to one of the Great Powers.

Lets also recall that the original Zionist were European gentlemen of the time, so their thinking about colonial peoples was just as dismissive as those of the rest of Europe.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Asher
You're lying! They're all Jewish holidays. I'm secular and don't celebrate them.

So what? I'm secular and I don't celebrate christmas, even though it is a secular holiday.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Asher
Ask someone in the ME the same question.

Seriously?
Did you know that conflict between Israel and it's neighbours had about 5-10 times less casualties than conflicts among muslim countries, and inner-country brawls?

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
So if Zionism was secular, why didn't they just carve a nice bit of land out of Eastern Europe for the Jewish State? Why did it have to be Israel?

First, there was a vocal minority that did consider it, called the territorial organization.

Second, because no one in Europe would agree to that, given the level of hatred for Jews, while turks were at the beginning receptive to Jews immigration, iirc.

And most importantly, because Israel was historically the Jewish homeland and Jews had ties in it through cultural pathos and folklore. Jewish folklore includes Torah stories but it is NOT limited to them.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

First, there was a vocal minority that did consider it, called the territorial organization.

Second, because no one in Europe would agree to that, given the level of hatred for Jews, while turks were at the beginning receptive to Jews immigration, iirc.

And most importantly, because Israel was historically the Jewish homeland and Jews had ties in it through cultural pathos and folklore. Jewish folklore includes Torah stories but it is NOT limited to them.

You're doing a lot of squirming around the issue that the Torah and Judaism is far and away THE biggest influence in "Jewish" culture, which is to say that your claim that it is "entirely secular" is false.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov


So what? I'm secular and I don't celebrate christmas, even though it is a secular holiday.

You're not secular, you're Jewish. That's kind of the point, the concept of "secular jews" is amusing to me.

Look at your flag icon and tell me how secular that is.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

Seriously?
Did you know that conflict between Israel and it's neighbours had about 5-10 times less casualties than conflicts among muslim countries, and inner-country brawls?

So now it's just a question of scale, how MANY people a country slaughters in the name of religion? It's okay, as long as they slaughter more.

MORE BULLDOZERS!!!

[Sirotnikov]

You're doing a lot of squirming around the issue that the Torah and Judaism is far and away THE biggest influence in "Jewish" culture, which is to say that your claim that it is "entirely secular" is false.

Of course Torah and Judaism are incredibly influentual on Jewish culture. Just the way christianity is incredibly influentual on any western culture, even if it is now concepts that you consider "secular".

The difference is that the secular revolution among christians began much earlier than the major secular revolution among jews.

You're not secular, you're Jewish. That's kind of the point, the concept of "secular jews" is amusing to me.

Making jokes about stuff you have no idea about is amusing

Are you willing to lie me to my face that there is no difference between me, and a religious pius Jew that believes in God, follows 613 torah rules, wears a kippah, fasts on Kippur and goes to synagogue?

You have no clue what you're on about. Give it up.

Look at your flag icon and tell me how secular that is.

Look at the flag of England and tell me how secular that is.

[TCO]

Siro: What do you (or other areligious Jews) take pride in? The tribe? The accomplishments of all the incredible scientists and artists? The suffering?

Also isn't it normal that with time, areligious Jews or even Jews that don't really identify much, sort of "come home" to either religion or to a more identification as a Jew or both?

[TCO]

And how did this thread turn to Jew explanation. Shouldn't we be abusing the Muslim criminals a little more?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Asher


Yep, the atheists who form a religion around atheists (with meetings, etc) are no better than the theists. Good catch, but a spectacular miss all the same.

Otherwise there is no such thing as an "atheist religion".

You're stretching the definition of atheist to meet your needs. Find for me one Soviet, one member of the Chinese communist party, one North Korean, or one member of the Myanamar junta who believes that Stalin, Mao, Kim Il Jong or the Myanamar junta made the Earth, are immortal, or have supernatural powers. Zealous devotion alone does not make a religion.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Of course Torah and Judaism are incredibly influentual on Jewish culture. Just the way christianity is incredibly influentual on any western culture, even if it is now concepts that you consider "secular".

The difference is that the secular revolution among christians began much earlier than the major secular revolution among jews.

Making jokes about stuff you have no idea about is amusing

Are you willing to lie me to my face that there is no difference between me, and a religious pius Jew that believes in God, follows 613 torah rules, wears a kippah, fasts on Kippur and goes to synagogue?

You don't believe in God at all? Then why live in Israel? Why do you and your ilk cause so much death and horror by living in contested land when the land itself is not at all important?

I can understand why religious people live in Israel, but not secular people. Are you just sadists?

Look at the flag of England and tell me how secular that is.

The flag from the 16th century? It's not secular, but you know very well what my opinion is on England. If you're trying to make a point by comparing Israel to 16th century England, your point is made, and I thank you for saving me the time.

[Winston]

And how did this thread turn to Jew explanation. Shouldn't we be abusing the Muslim criminals a little more?

Oh no. We simply cannot abuse anything Muslim, that's the whole point. The atheists and leftists won't hear of it.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Winston

And how did this thread turn to Jew explanation. Shouldn't we be abusing the Muslim criminals a little more?

Oh no. We simply cannot abuse anything Muslim, that's the whole point. The atheists and leftists won't hear of it.

You can "abuse" muslims all you want, just don't cry when people hit you back when your history is just as checkered.

This whole "good guy" and "bad guy" bull**** with religion pisses me the hell off. Christians and Jews genuinely believe the Muslims are the bad guys, and the Muslims genuinely believe the Christians and Jews are the bad guys. It's just an endless cycle of stupidity and violence, and the world will be better off when the religious people who follow all of those faiths reach Enlightenment 2.0 and figure out it's all a sham.

[Dinner]

The different news sources are still reporting different death tolls. Which one is the most reliable?