The Last Election Thread

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Guynemer
For the record, I just saw my first Jeremiah Wright ad, apparently purchased by the GOP Trust PAC or some such thing.

Two days left in the election, and that's when they pull this out?

Originally posted by Darius871
It's actually smart timing; they've seen time and again how any manufactured controversy gets diffused by the media fact-checking inside 48-72 hours, so the best bet is to unleash a barrage at the last minute so it's on the voters' minds the second they pull the lever. Of course they'll save what they perceive to be the "big guns" for last.

The facts are known to the miniscule number of people who followed the Dem primary, but many uninformed undecideds or even some tentative Obama voters would see this as something new and there won't be time to debunk it. That, and the debunking will be much more difficult than for Ayers because here there was a much more extensive relationship, some inconsistent and/or downright unbelievable statements before his repudiation, the racial angle to it, etc. Evil? Yes. Ineffective? No. But probably not enough to close the EC spread.

Speaking of that, it really became clear watching the gem below the other day; it keeps being characterized as being "caught" not having a second example, but from the way he said "I think we both know who I'm talking about here" it was obvious he meant Wright (maybe both Wright and Farrakhan, but at least Wright).

The fact that he went out of his way not to utter Wright's name, to the point of even making an ass out of himself, suggested to me that there are marching orders within the campaign not to raise the Wright issue except through surrogates until the last few days. There's no other explanation why he would be so tight-lipped about "who we're talking about here."

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I don't think this is true. The Wright flap during the primaries was major national news that dominated the coverage for a good two weeks. The notion that a "miniscule" number of people are aware of it seems pretty preposterous.

You vastly, vastly overestimate how much the average voter pays attention to any national news, let alone this piece of the news. Ignore the unusually informed people surrounding you and start thinking about people on Jaywalking or COPS.

I think this sums it up pretty well about both sides:

[Ben Kenobi]

And since there is no censorship going on, you have no point. Do you even know what censorship means?

You completely undermined your case by saying Bush was wrong for doing the same thing. I'm not sure why you are arguing this at all when it's clear you and I agree on this issue. It's wrong to kick media off the plane for the sole reason that they are willing to criticise you.

Restricting access doesn't guarantee positive coverage, so you miss the point. Has the media coverage of this Obama campaign plane flap been positive or negative? Hmmm.

If Bush were to restrict coverage of those who did negative press, then he'd never hold a press conference. So your argument that Bush only provides access to those who approve of him is wrong.

This is in sharp contrast to Obama, who very clearly does not want non-believers on his plane.

But Bush DID enjoy a very long period in which the media was a lapdog. That's a big part of why we're now in Iraq, because reporters didn't do their jobs.

So to make all that fawning up Bush = Hitler? That just shows unprofessionalism.

It's not up to the media outlets to determine it for themselves, it's up to the FCC to enforce. You REALLY don't have a clue.

It's the same issue. Perception can be far different then reality and gaging whether something is conservative or liberal is a matter of perception and subjective.

Censorship is the government telling you that you can't say something. Censorship is not telling you that, should you be using public airwaves to broadcast information that you're required to balance it with opposing viewpoints.

The SCOTUS has already ruled on this, BK, and they declared you so very, very wrong.

It is censorship if they say you cannot broadcast unless you also broadcast the opposite point of view.

Um, yes.

Bush never packed courts.

No, Ben, critical thinking would require you to actually investigate it and find out the truth independently. It would not be just automatically assuming the opposite of what I say.

But it does mean agreeing with you without evidence?

It's your argument. Convince me that it's true and I'll believe you.

But since it's been proven now, quit dodging: Do you now think that McCain engaged in censorship in booting Klein from his plane, which his own campaign said was because of his reporting? Do you believe he now needs to grow a thicker skin?

I think it's wrong whomever does it, McCain or Obama.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Darius871
You vastly, vastly overestimate how much the average voter pays attention to any national news, let alone this piece of the news. Ignore the unusually informed people around you and start thinking about people on Jaywalking or COPS.

Those hardly represent the average voter. Those represent the average NON-voter much more.

Believe me, I've had plenty of talks with low-information voters, and perhaps the ONE thing they knew about Obama was his link to Wright.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Those hardly represent the average voter. Those represent the average NON-voter much more.

You mean those people in the clip who said straight-up that they are voting? Even in reference to the Jaywalk/COPS crowd, I fail to see how irresponsibility and/or stupidity affects probability of voting to the extent that you do.

Seriously, we're talking about a country where only 75% of people know our independence was from England, only 80% of people know Earth revolves around the sun, and over 50% of people vote. Why should I assume that very few of the the retarded 20-25% are among that voting 50%+?

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Believe me, I've had plenty of talks with low-information voters, and perhaps the ONE thing they knew about Obama was his link to Wright.

Dude, you live in freakin' Portland. Talk about non-representative samples...

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
and perhaps the ONE thing they knew about Obama was his link to Wright.

Or that he's a muslim, maybe. Of course a lot of them probably think Wright is a muslim.

[Seedle]

Originally posted by Darius871
Seriously, we're talking about a country where only 75% of people know our independence was from England, only 80% of people know Earth revolves around the sun,

Source? Good ****ing God, Americans are bigger fools than I thought, and I thought they were very substantial fools.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Seedle




Source? Good ****ing God, Americans are bigger fools than I thought, and I thought they were very substantial fools.

Good ****ing good, don't tell me you're enough of a substantial fool to be surprised by this. Clearly there is a gross deficit of pessimism on these boards.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/3742/new-poll-gauges-americans-general-knowledge-levels.aspx

[Darius871]

Or while we're on the topic, there was of course the much-reported 2006 NG study showing that 88% of young adults couldn't point to Afghanistan on a map, even though we've been fighting a ****ing war there for almost 7 years. Even Iraq couldn't be found by 63%, and we've been fighting an even more active and controversial war there for 5 years...

The same question brough 70% for North Korea, even though it's been plastered all over the news for years, with maps included. Also when given a list including China, India, Japan, North Korea, and Afghanistan (you know, probably 5 of the 10 most important countries to the U.S.), only a pathetic 6% could point to each.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/foundation/pdf/NGSRoper2006Report.pdf

[Seedle]

Originally posted by Darius871




Good ****ing good, don't tell me you're enough of a substantial fool to be surprised by this. Clearly there is a gross deficit of pessimism on these boards.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/3742/new-...ge-levels.aspx

Hey, you can review my posts, I'm constantly ragging on America's education. But I still didn't think that there was a substantial number of adults that didn't understand heliocentrism. Though to be fair, more Americans know about it than Brits or Germans, according to the link you provided.

[Seedle]

Originally posted by Darius871
Or while we're on the topic, there was of course the much-reported 2006 NG study showing that 88% of young adults couldn't point to Afghanistan on a map, even though we've been fighting a ****ing war there for almost 7 years. Even Iraq couldn't be found by 63%, and we've been fighting an even more active and controversial war there for 5 years...

The same question brough 70% for North Korea, even though it's been plastered all over the news for years, with maps included. Also when given a list including China, India, Japan, North Korea, and Afghanistan (you know, probably 5 of the 10 most important countries to the U.S.), only a pathetic 6% could point to each.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/fo...2006Report.pdf

This doesn't surprise me. Actually, no, it surprises me the numbers are so high.

[Deity Dude]

What Darius left out was that the same question (Does the earth revolve around the sun or the sun around the earth) was asked in Germany and England. Percentages with correct answers

US - 79%
Germany - 74%
England - 67%

So if this is somehow an indication of the worth of a country it's no wonder that the US had to rescue England from Germany in WWI and WWII.

He also didn't give the breakdown by race and gender for the 4th of July question.

Pct answering correctly:

Men - 85% - Women - 69%
Whites - 80% - Blacks - 54%

So I guess Darius would derive that men are superior to women and whites are 50% superior to blacks.

[KrazyHorse]

Iraq's easier to find. It's not surrounded by a bunch of other 'stans which are similarly sized. It's also not locked in the middle of the biggest land-mass in the world.

Personally, I always mix up Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Seedle
Hey, you can review my posts, I'm constantly ragging on America's education.

Unfortunately it has little to do with education, considering that kids in even the ****tiest schools could discover basic facts like that. It has to do with the fact that the culture doesn't encourage knowledge, and parents very rarely do. What difference do a good teacher, book, and laptop make if the kids don't give a ****? None. And what could just magically make the kids suddenly start giving a ****? Nothing. Democracy is doomed.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Deity Dude
What Darius left out was that the same question (Does the earth revolve around the sun or the sun around the earth) was asked in Germany and England. Percentages with correct answers

US - 79%
Germany - 74%
England - 67%

So if this is somehow an indication of the worth of a country it's no wonder that the US had to rescue England from Germany in WWI and WWII.

He also didn't give the breakdown by race and gender for the 4th of July question.

Pct answering correctly:

Men - 85% - Women - 69%
Whites - 80% - Blacks - 54%

So I guess Darius would derive that men are superior to women and whites are 50% superior to blacks.

WTF? I never said one peep about Americans being dumber than people from other countries, or about the "worth" of any country, or about who is "superior" to whom. I was simply countering Boris' absurd optimism about how news-savvy and intellectual the voting public is, and nothing more.

Until some Euro comes on and uses those polls to diss on America, you're whacking at a straw man here. But at least you're beating him!