The Last Election Thread

[Ben Kenobi]

Self-isolation is a form of shelter. Just because you see them doesn't mean you know them.

Why would you be so presumptuous to call me a racist?

You are making a hell of alot of assumptions without anything to back it up.

And if not, you should be explaining why you can say things like Boris' signature.

Kicking off a reporter because he has the balls to criticise you bodes ill for freedom of the press. Obama has been more then willing to shut down those whom he disagrees with including passing the fairness doctrine.

Perhaps you don't see the two as equivalent, but they are both important freedoms, the first, that all men were created equal, and the second, that they are free to criticise the powers that be without fear of censorship or oppression.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Why would you be so presumptious to call me a racist without any evidence to the contrary?

You are making a hell of alot of assumptions without anything to back it up.

I didn't call you racist. Some statements you've made are just shockingly ignorant.

Kicking off a reporter because he has the balls to criticise you bodes ill for freedom of the press. Obama has been more then willing to shut down those whom he disagrees with including the fairness doctrine.

Perhaps you don't see the two as equivalent, but they are both important freedoms, the first, that all men were created equal, and the second, that they are free to criticise the powers that be without fear of censorship or oppression.

"Being black he should know the back of the bus well".

That doesn't sound like you're out there pushing for freedom of the press.

[Ben Kenobi]

"Being black he should know the back of the bus well".

That doesn't sound like you're out there pushing for freedom of the press.

Retaliation isn't a good thing. Just because you've been hurt doesn't mean you should lash out. That's the whole point of breaking the chain.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Why would you be so presumptuous to call me a racist?

Probably because you say racist things.

Kicking off a reporter because he has the balls to criticise you bodes ill for freedom of the press. Obama has been more then willing to shut down those whom he disagrees with including passing the fairness doctrine.

Except that Obama didn't kick off reporters for criticizing him. These reporters didn't criticize Obama, that's not their job. So we'll chalk up journalism to another thing you don't understand.

Now John McCain DID kick Joe Klein off his plane, EXPRESSLY for criticizing him. What ya think about that, huh?

Perhaps you don't see the two as equivalent, but they are both important freedoms, the first, that all men were created equal, and the second, that they are free to criticise the powers that be without fear of censorship or oppression.

The Obama campaign isn't censoring these reporters. They are perfectly free to follow him around, there just wasn't room for them on the campaign plane. He isn't restricting access to him at his campaign events, which is where all the news is, anyway.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Retaliation isn't a good thing. Just because you've been hurt doesn't mean you should lash out. That's the whole point of breaking the chain.

I was hurt?

You said some really ridiculous things, and now I'm calling you on them.

[Ben Kenobi]

Probably because you say racist things.

Right, and I'd go so far as to accuse you of not having any black friends? I don't know anything about your life. Don't presume to know anything about mine.

Except that Obama didn't kick off reporters for criticizing him. These reporters didn't criticize Obama, that's not their job. So we'll chalk up journalism to another thing you don't understand.

That's exactly what he did. If we disagree about what happened, then of course we are going to disagree about our assessment of the situation. Do you call everyone who disagrees with you racist?

The Obama campaign isn't censoring these reporters. They are perfectly free to follow him around, there just wasn't room for them on the campaign plane. He isn't restricting access to him at his campaign events, which is where all the news is, anyway.

So it's ok if they sit in the back of the bus for criticising him?

[Ben Kenobi]

I was hurt?

You said some really ridiculous things, and now I'm calling you on them.

Wow, I didn't know you were BHO.

Shouldn't you be out campaigning in Iowa?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Right, and I'd go so far as to accuse you of not having any black friends? I don't know anything about your life. Don't presume to know anything about mine.

The difference being that I've never said anything so racially insensitive and stupid as to equate the reporter scenario to the struggle for racial equality of blacks in America.

That's exactly what he did. If we disagree about what happened, then of course we are going to disagree about our assessment of the situation. Do you call everyone who disagrees with you racist?

1. I didn't call you a racist. I was just helping you out with a possible reason why TEF might think you are.
2. I think people who equate a candidate deciding to remove reporters to anti-black racial descrimination might be racist, but they definitely are stupid.
3. I noticed you selectively failed to quote and respond to the fact that McCain kicked a reporter off his plane, and it was stated it was precisely because of his negative coverage. I can only assume you dodged that one out of typical intellectual dishonesty.

So it's ok if they sit in the back of the bus for criticising him?

It's OK for a political candidate to do whatever he wants with the news entourage on his plane, as it's not a civil rights issue. No reporter is entitled to be on a campaign plane, period. If they were, you'd have thousands upon thousands of reporters suing candidates left and right because there wasn't room for them on a plane.

Do you think about any of your arguments before actually typing them out?

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
OK, it's one thing to punk a candidate's supporters... but how about punking the candidate?

Judging by Palin's tone near the end that poor secretary got fired, assuming her head isn't already on a pike... how cruel

[Ben Kenobi]

The difference being that I've never said anything so racially insensitive and stupid as to equate the reporter scenario to the struggle for racial equality of blacks in America.

So you don't believe freedom of the press is equally important?

1. I didn't call you a racist. I was just helping you out with a possible reason why TEF might think you are.

So, if I'm not a racist, might I employ arguments that seem on the surface to be such to hammer my underlying point home?

2. I think people who equate a candidate deciding to remove reporters to anti-black racial descrimination might be racist, but they definitely are stupid.

It depends on the reason. If a candidate who has already promised to revive the fairness doctrine, might one be alarmed when he boots critics, and critics only to the back of the bus?

3. I noticed you selectively failed to quote and respond to the fact that McCain kicked a reporter off his plane, and it was stated it was precisely because of his negative coverage. I can only assume you dodged that one out of typical intellectual dishonesty.

McCain isn't promising to employ censorship over liberals. You selectively dodged my point about the fairness doctrine. Why was that? Should I assume intellectual dishonesty on your part?

Do you think about any of your arguments before actually typing them out?

First off, if you allow news entourage on the plane in the first place, and then boot them for getting uppity, what message does that send? Play ball or go home?

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
....Obama has been more then willing to shut down those whom he disagrees with including passing the fairness doctrine. ....

OMG, fairness! Panic! Run!! Flee!!!

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


So you don't believe freedom of the press is equally important?

Weren't you all up in arms with Sarah Palin about the media taking away her Freedom of Speech by using their Freedom of the Press?

So, if I'm not a racist, might I employ arguments that seem on the surface to be such to hammer my underlying point home?

Not if its in poor taste - it doesn't help the argument.

]It depends on the reason. If a candidate who has already promised to revive the fairness doctrine, might one be alarmed when he boots critics, and critics only to the back of the bus?

He's doing this to individual reporters, not an entire class of people. There are still other conservative columnists on his plane.

McCain isn't promising to employ censorship over liberals. You selectively dodged my point about the fairness doctrine. Why was that? Should I assume intellectual dishonesty on your part?

Liberals have been censored by the right for the last 8 years. McCain is trying to do it right now by conjuring up fears of socialism and talking about Real- and Pro-America parts of the country. When he gets into office, why would he change?

First off, if you allow news entourage on the plane in the first place, and then boot them for getting uppity, what message does that send? Play ball or go home?

I love the word choice here.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
So you don't believe freedom of the press is equally important?

How is this in any way restricting freedom of the press? The first amendment doesn't guarantee reporters the right to sit on a campaign's plane. That's a priveledge granted by any particular campaign.

Nobody is restricting the right of these reporters to report the news as they (or, more precisely, their editors) see fit.

So, if I'm not a racist, might I employ arguments that seem on the surface to be such to hammer my underlying point home?

You can employ whatever methods you want, no one will stop you. But if your point is to compare this situation to the black civil rights struggle, you can expect to rightly be called at least racially insensitve and stupid.

It depends on the reason. If a candidate who has already promised to revive the fairness doctrine, might one be alarmed when he boots critics, and critics only to the back of the bus?

McCain isn't promising to employ censorship over liberals. You selectively dodged my point about the fairness doctrine. Why was that? Should I assume intellectual dishonesty on your part?

The Fairness Doctrine does not mean what you think it means. It says nothing about censoring views.

Moreover, it's a doctine that, according to the SCOTUS, the FCC has every right to enforce, should they so choose. That right there tells you it's not unconstitutional, which means it ain't censorship.

First off, if you allow news entourage on the plane in the first place, and then boot them for getting uppity, what message does that send? Play ball or go home?

I don't know Ben, what message did McCain send when he booted Klein from his plane? If you're not upset over that, then your little outrage fit here is utter hypocrisy.

The Obama campaign has said--and at least the DFW newspaper has agreed--that the decision wasn't based on their endorsements. In fact, if it were, why is it that the campaign has allowed FOX news to remain? If the message was "play ball or go home," wouldn't they be the first to go?

[-Jrabbit]

I can't believe how long this dicussion has gone.

This kind of stuff has gone on for years. In campaigns, in the White House press room, etc. It has everything to do with politics, and nothing to do with freedom of the press.

People are trying to win elections here. They are acting in their self-interest, and within the law. This really ranks extremely low on the significance scale. Tempest in a teapot.

[Ben Kenobi]

Weren't you all up in arms with Sarah Palin about the media taking away her Freedom of Speech by using their Freedom of the Press?

No. You must have me confused with somebody else.

Not if its in poor taste - it doesn't help the argument.

Then why didn't you say it was in poor taste rather then jumping straight to the question, "have you ever seen a black person?"

I was trying to figure out how best to mock that absurd response. I was wondering if irony would work.

He's doing this to individual reporters, not an entire class of people. There are still other conservative columnists on his plane.

Such as? I'm intrigued to hear which ones you consider conservative. I never said he kicked off conservatives, I said he kicked off folks who criticised him. That's rather petty.

He's free to invite whomever he wants, but to kick them off when they displease him? I thought America fought a war so they wouldn't have to have a king.

Liberals have been censored by the right for the last 8 years. McCain is trying to do it right now by conjuring up fears of socialism and talking about Real- and Pro-America parts of the country. When he gets into office, why would he change?

In what way have they been censored? Heck, I get a steady stream of anti-bush rhetoric from American channels even up here. It's like Voice of America except that they hate their own country.

I love the word choice here.

Thank you.