Being an Independent in the USA is like living in a Monarchy

[Heraclitus]

Americans: Vote third party!


A bipartisan system is just step away from a one party system. Heck I bet the average USAian wouldn't notice any difference if the Dems and Repugs merged. Come to think of it nothing would change.

The US would need the following parties to work as a democracy:

A big Christian party
A conservative party (a new "republican" party)
A liberal party (new "democratic" party)
A Social Democratic party (a real left party)
A libertarian party
A Green party

The function of the first one is to keep nuts out of the mainstream conservative party. If you had one of these in the 70's the Republican party wouldn't have been hijacked by Christian fundamentalists. I think it would get about 20% of the vote.

The rest are self explanatory.

[rah]

Originally posted by Agathon
Yeah, Nixon got elected... twice. Great job there rah.

Gee using that to demean all the efforts of the younger generation and blacks in the 60 and 70s. Great job there.


And Nixon won twice because the hippies were too stoned to remember to register to vote, and a lot of blacks were denied their right to vote. Lay blame as you will

And I'd take Nixon over the last few presidents.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

no but yeah but not but... get off you ass and vote for that third party if you and another 20 million of you (I am sure there are more "disenfranchised" out there in that 300mil country of yours) who cannot be bothered to vote because it "does not matter" did get off the ass and threw the protest vote, something would change...

voting is like any other work, if you do not work (those 15min or afternoon in the worst case scenario) do not expect to get paid - ever. People were dying for centuries to get to this stage that you can actually have a say... but barbecue & complaining about US (up and coming) monarchy in the meantime is better... they really brainwashed you out there bad... you are either a brainless voter or a pathetic bystander

[Aeson]

Originally posted by rah
I'm glad that you have contacted representatives.
It means you're doing something. And it means that you really think you can make a difference despite your claims to the contrary.
If this was the only place you expressed yourself than yes it's worthy of mockery.

No, I don't think I can make a difference (that way) actually. I occasionally have some faint hope that I can, but never so far as to think it will actually change something. (Perhaps the petitions, but in that case it's really not me making much of a difference.)

And no the "if" is not worthy of mockery rah. There are intelligent people who post here, a few of who actually listen and are willing to modify their positions when a valid argument is made. Far moreso than you'd expect from the average person or any random sampling.

It's precisely cliches like this website (where people with common interests come together to discuss things), or even just a few individuals that meet in/through one, that have occasionally risen up to enact real change. It has to start somewhere... and yah... chances of it happening here are slim... but they're even slimmer most other places, and certainly far slimmer other places for me, being part of this community and not part of most of those others.

[onodera]

You also need a voting system where voting for a minor candidate is not wasted. If you vote for a left-ish independent candidate, you actually vote for McCain, because your voice doesn't count now, and Obama has just lost it.
A voting system where you can rank candidates, and where your vote goes to the next ranked candidate if your first choice is unpopular is much more democratic.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

but they are never going to get it until enough of them decide to break the party-duopoly...

[Lancer]

Not voting is a vote but it gets thrown in with alot of others that are too lazy. There should be a 'no confidence' vote on the ballot, a protest vote.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by rah

Gee using that to demean all the efforts of the younger generation and blacks in the 60 and 70s. Great job there.

Like what? You *****ed so you wouldn't get sent to Nam. Then, when you argued (in fact it was a minority who argued this) for greater equality and so on, you completely turned it over when it suited you and voted for Rayguns and right wing policies that made it worse for blacks and poor people.

Jerry Rubin became a stockbroker. Nuff said.

And Nixon won twice because the hippies were too stoned to remember to register to vote, and a lot of blacks were denied their right to vote. Lay blame as you will

No. Nixon won because he understood that the hippies upset the authoritarian element in society and so he goaded them into ever more outrageous actions. The hippies helped by acting like selfish asshats, but you're still living with essentially the same voting blocs than Nixon forged.

No plausible amount of voter fraud or laziness is sufficient to explain why McGovern got buttraped.

And I'd take Nixon over the last few presidents.

Even HST said that, and he hated him.

[Riesstiu IV]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
but they are never going to get it until enough of them decide to break the party-duopoly...

I doubt the two party system will change anytime soon. There would need to be a lot of outrage at the government and a huge drop in the standard of living before people would act out and demand change. Currently, there is only outrage.

The two party lines are deeply imbedded within the population. For many people, seeing the "R" or "D" next to a candidate name is all they need to decide their vote.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Riesstiu IV

The two party lines are deeply imbedded within the population. For many people, seeing the "R" or "D" next to a candidate name is all they need to decide their vote.

Redneck or Dopefiend. What a choice.

[rah]

God, the pessimism here is downright depressing.

It's almost a shame that people have to rely on web sites now.
In the old days we'd being doing this face to face. They were called bullsessions. When you did it face to face maybe our attention span was longer. If we all agreed that something was screwed up we actually tried to do something about it.
We'd get a group together, and go out and protest. Or we'd go out and collect funds for organizations we thought were doing the right thing. In most cases it didn't cause change but a few times it did.

It's like Lancer's building campaign. IT ACTUALLY accomplished something. But what was it, once or twice over the entire history of this site. That's not enough.

[rah]

Gee aggy, you belittle other peoples effort why you sit on your ass and do nothing and try to claim the moral high ground. UNtil you actually do something you have no right to comment about others efforts. But then, that has never stopped you.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Riesstiu IV


I doubt the two party system will change anytime soon. There would need to be a lot of outrage at the government and a huge drop in the standard of living before people would act out and demand change. Currently, there is only outrage.

The two party lines are deeply imbedded within the population. For many people, seeing the "R" or "D" next to a candidate name is all they need to decide their vote.

true, but the least what the "net-enlightened" population can do is go out that day and vote for third party, I am sure there are a lot more of you out there than one would think... At least this round Ron Paul is making a real case for change... vote for him even if you don't agree with "everything"... it's a vote for a change in political system.

[Riesstiu IV]

I like a lot of Ron Paul's positions.

Also, I think the electoral college would need to be eliminated completely if a third party wanted to have a chance at being elected. Popular vote

[Arrian]

It's like Lancer's building campaign...

I'd forgotten that Lancer is a dirty community activist...

-Arrian