Being an Independent in the USA is like living in a Monarchy

[Space05us]

Prove me wrong.

[Lancer]

I'm registered independent and I say its more like living in a casinoarchy.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080930/...inting_fingers;_ylt=AhVgUHnjXqN92DYLt56a9khvaA8F

US 'casino' mentality blamed for planet's meltdown

By ALAN CLENDENNING, AP Business Writer Tue Sep 30, 5:21 PM ET


SAO PAULO, Brazil - Astounded by the U.S. government's failure to resolve the financial crisis threatening the foundations of the global free market, fingers of blame are pointing at America from around the planet.

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Latin American leaders say the U.S. must quickly fix the financial crisis it created before the rest of the world's hard-won economic gains are lost.

"The managers of big business took huge risks out of greed," said President Oscar Arias of Costa Rica, whose economy is highly dependent on U.S. trade. "What happens in the United States will affect the entire world and, above all, small countries like ours."

In Europe, where some blame a phenomenon of "casino capitalism" that has become deeply engrained from New York to London to Moscow, there is more of a sense of shared responsibility. But Europeans also blame the U.S. government for letting things get out of hand.

Amid harsh criticism is a growing consensus that stricter financial regulation is needed to prevent unfettered capitalism from destroying economies around the globe.

And leaders of developing nations that kept spending tight and opened their economies in response to American demands are warning of other consequences — a loss of U.S. influence globally and the likelihood that the world's poor will suffer the most from greed by the biggest players in global finance.

"They spent the last three decades saying we needed to do our chores. They didn't," a grim-faced Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said Tuesday.

Even staunch U.S. allies like Colombian President Alvaro Uribe blasted the world's most powerful country for egging on uncontrolled financial speculation that he compared to a wild horse with no reins.

"The whole world has financed the United States, and I believe that they have a reciprocal debt with the planet," he said.

It's harder for European leaders to point the finger directly at the United States since many of their financiers participated in the recklessness. London was home to the division of failed insurer AIG that racked up huge losses on credit-default swaps, and many reputable European banks disregarded risk to load up on higher yielding subprime assets.

But the House's rejection Monday of the U.S. bank bailout proposed by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson provoked a sharper tone and warnings that America must act. Though global markets on Tuesday recovered some of the ground they lost in a worldwide slide the day before, politicians from Europe to South America insisted the risk of a further plunge remains high.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel called on U.S. lawmakers to pass a package this week, saying it was the "precondition for creating new confidence on the markets — and that is of incredibly great significance."

In an unusually blunt statement from the 27-country European Union, EU Commission spokesman Johannes Laitenberger said: "The United States must take its responsibility in this situation, must show statesmanship for the sake of their own country, and for the sake of the world."

The crisis also has strengthened voices in France and Germany calling for EU regulations to eliminate highly deregulated financial markets, despite objections from Britain, which along with the U.S. is considered by some to practice a freer form of "Anglo-Saxon" capitalism.

"This crisis underlines the excesses and uncertainties of a casino capitalism that has only one logic — lining your pockets," said German lawmaker Martin Schulz, chairman of the Socialists in the EU assembly. "It also shows the bankruptcy of 'law of the jungle' capitalism that no longer invests in companies and job creation, but instead makes money out of money in a totally uncontrolled way."

The U.S. government's failure to apply rules that might have prevented the crisis is seen as a betrayal in many developing countries that faced intense U.S. pressures to liberalize their economies. In some developing nations, state enterprises were privatized, currencies were allowed to float against the U.S. dollar and painful measures were taken to bring down debts.

These advances are at risk now that credit is drying up. Countries with commodities-based economies are particularly vulnerable since more industrialized nations could reduce their demand for everything from soy to iron ore.

"It doesn't seem fair to me that those of us who endured so much hunger in the 20th century, who began to improve in the 21st century, should have to suffer due to the international financial system," Silva said. "There are going to be a lot of people going hungry in the world."

Just before meeting with Silva on Tuesday, Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez said he believes a new economic order is in store for the planet.

"What's to blame? Imperialism, the United States, the irresponsibility of the United States government," said the self-avowed socialist and frequent U.S. critic. "From this crisis, a new world has to emerge, and it's a multi-polar world."

China's influence in the outcome of all this could be profound because it is a huge investor in U.S. debt. It is already calling for strict new international regulatory systems to apply to globalized financial markets.

Liu Mingkang, chairman of the Chinese Banking Regulatory Commission, said Saturday before a weeklong bank holiday in China that debt in the United States and elsewhere has risen to dangerous and indefensible levels.

The rest of the world is taking notice. Many newspapers made references Tuesday to China's increasing importance in global finance. In Algeria, a large cartoon on the front page of the newspaper El-Watan showed Uncle Sam at prayer: "Save us!" he says, kneeling before a portrait of China's Mao Zedong.

In London, Jane Ayerson, a 20-year-old Irish exchange student, said Europeans share the blame.

"The problem started with America, but banks here have been greedy, too," she said.

[SlowwHand]

I'm independent, and I say you suck rocks, Spacey.

[Space05us]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
I'm independent, and I say you suck rocks, Spacey.

I might, in a few decades, but in the mean time prove me wrong.

edit: To elaborate a bit, I don't support either the Democratic or Republican party as I believe in them both being corrupt beyond reproach and neither of them are capable of ushering in positive change.

We need a third party who is in the center, and willing to create change. Willing to play hardball to purge the system of old school mudslingers and bring in people who care, people who are willing to risk a career to say what needs to be said and do what needs to be done. A public official in a democracy should not worry about their career and power, they should worry about what the people want. If the past eight years truly represents what the American public wants than maybe I should consider moving to a country with ideals more in line with my own. What country would that be? I don't know, I was raised to believe that the USA was the best, maybe I was wrong all along.

[Asher]

Why do Lancer and SlowwHand pretend to be independents? Independent republicans? MAVERICK republicans if you will?

[Lancer]

Asher, I like Obama and if he was pro life I'd be voting for him. If a pro life demo comes along that I like I see no problem. I'd say its more likely these days as the left seems to be distancing itself from the feminists a bit after Hillary lost. Who knows what the future holds?

Anyway, that's my reasoning. Go ahead and call me names now, thanks.

[Berzerker]

there's yer legacy, George

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Lancer
In London, Jane Ayerson, a 20-year-old Irish exchange student, said Europeans share the blame.

"The problem started with America, but banks here have been greedy, too," she said.

I'm glad they mentioned her relevant opinion besides those of Merkel and other presidents and prime ministers.

[Space05us]

Originally posted by Lancer
Asher, I like Obama and if he was pro life I'd be voting for him. If a pro life demo comes along that I like I see no problem. I'd say its more likely these days as the left seems to be distancing itself from the feminists a bit after Hillary lost. Who knows what the future holds?

Anyway, that's my reasoning. Go ahead and call me names now, thanks.

Why not call for a third or even fourth party then? Liberal social views except for a conservative view of abortion is something that should be supported as much as a free market economy with liberal social views. Instead we're stuck with one side being free market and ultra conservative and the other side being borderline communist with pretend liberal social views. And both of our current political parties bend far too much to the will of anything and anyone with money. All because they would sooner win an election than adhere to their ideals.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Lancer
Asher, I like Obama and if he was pro life I'd be voting for him. If a pro life demo comes along that I like I see no problem. I'd say its more likely these days as the left seems to be distancing itself from the feminists a bit after Hillary lost. Who knows what the future holds?

Anyway, that's my reasoning. Go ahead and call me names now, thanks.

Neither canidate will succesfully change abortion, yet you are voting based on that issue?

I was not going to call you names, but you invited me to, so..... you are a moron and your reasoning is idiotic. Abortion is a non issue since neither canidate will affect change there, vote based on something else.

[Lancer]

I'm all for it. I was going to vote Perot simply because he was breaking the 2 party system. Even had the stupid signs in my yard. Then I got Peroted with the rest. Hasn't been a viable 3rd party since and I simply haven't had representaion ever. Another reasom I'm independent.

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Vesayen


Neither canidate will succesfully change abortion, yet you are voting based on that issue?

I was not going to call you names, but you invited me to, so..... you are a moron and your reasoning is idiotic. Abortion is a non issue since neither canidate will affect change there, vote based on something else.

The pres gets to put supreme court justices in. Supreme court justices put Roe vs Wade in, they can overturn it. It's the only hope.

[Lancer]

Furthermore Vesayen, this next pres will likely be able to replace a few of the oldies. If McCain/Palin is in they'll be pro life.

I had a thread 'Obama and Abortion', I'll bump it. Watch the vids right in the beginning.

[SlowwHand]

Asher, what would you call someone that has voted both Democrat and Republican for 30 years? Independent, you think?

[Asher]

If you're going to outlaw all forms of abortion, you might want to outlaw masturbation too. Not to mention sperm-killing cell phones.