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  • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


    Incorrect. No one in heaven will want communism and unions. What sense would they make when no work is needed?
    Maybe for the social aspect? Just because they're opposed to your political leanings doesn't mean that they're necessarily verboten in anyone else's heaven.
    B♭3

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    • Originally posted by Kidicious

      I suggest that you read this over and over again and think hard about it until you are confused by it.
      Have you ever had a habit or addiction Kidicious?

      If so, I think you are familiar with what it means to be predisposed to sin. To not be free to do whatever yuo want.

      JM
      Jon Miller-
      I AM.CANADIAN
      GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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      • So God controls our desires too?
        No, but our sinful desires would be gone. That wouldn't prevent us from sinning, as we would still have the free will, but we wouldn't want to do so anyways.

        You can't know why you will change you mind in the future. If you could you would change you mind immediately.
        I don't know what it feels like to have a body free from sin at all, and how much my judgements are impaired by sin.
        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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        • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
          I actually could totally see hell being that way. You have a small stool, on an endless machine where you have to do the same task over and over again, and on the wall you see a poster that says "Workers Paradise". You never tire, and you never quite reach the lunch hour. You wear earphones so you can hear a stuttering comrade slowly read Das Kapital, except he sometimes skips lines and pages, and forgets where he was and goes back again.
          How is that any different than being stuck in a place where one is forced either to participate in repeated choruses praising the Dear Leader, or having to listen to it all the time from non-gendered winged creatures?

          I mean, that's one of the traditional views of heaven, and if you're an atheist and get there, it's probably akin to hell anyway?
          B♭3

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          • Thus, why it is so difficult for religious people to have a debate based on evidence, logic or even just debate well at all.
            I don't think Eschatology really has any physical referents whatsoever. I'm not claiming based on evidence that my positions and understanding are anymore right then anyone elses.

            This is simply my understand of what heaven is like. If you disagree, I suggest you explain yours.
            Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
            "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
            2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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            • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

              Or that time with God hasn't came. I believe those who are dead now are in heaven with him, because scripture talks about Moses and Elijah being with God in heaven, even though they are dead. If they are alive then so are others, and those people would be able to see us and they would indeed feel sorrow for those who still suffer here on earth.
              Elijah never died, and I think it says somewhere (I could be remembering wrong), that God resurrected Moses took him up to Him after his death.

              JM
              Jon Miller-
              I AM.CANADIAN
              GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
                God will save those whom he will save. That is all we know.
                Which means you can't really say he won't save the atheists, too.
                B♭3

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                • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
                  Yes of course.

                  He's God.

                  You are familiar with the phrase that he who humbles himself is exalted, and he who exalts himself shall be humbled?

                  How is that authoritarian?
                  Well, technically, didn't God tell His chosen to exalt and worship no-one but Him? So, in other words, didn't He exalt Himself?
                  B♭3

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                  • Originally posted by Mrs Snuggles

                    I mean, that's one of the traditional views of heaven, and if you're an atheist and get there, it's probably akin to hell anyway?
                    That is a common view of heaven. That all the people who would want to be there will be there.

                    JM
                    Jon Miller-
                    I AM.CANADIAN
                    GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
                      It doesn't work the other way though. If we've decided that we don't want God in our lives, then he will accept our decision, and we will live an eternity without him.
                      So his forgiveness and love is actually quite limited.
                      B♭3

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mrs Snuggles

                        Which means you can't really say he won't save the atheists, too.
                        Are you familliar with the writings of McDonald and others?

                        What of the three main ideas in Christianity is that all (or almost all) of mankind will be saved.

                        It was actually much more common in the early church (back when Rome wasn't dominant) than it is now. It was very much a herecy for a long time, and is still pretty heretical.

                        JM
                        Jon Miller-
                        I AM.CANADIAN
                        GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                        Comment


                        • I mean, that's one of the traditional views of heaven, and if you're an atheist and get there, it's probably akin to hell anyway?
                          And that's part of the point. The people who are in heaven are those who want to be there. No one is going to force you into heaven.

                          Personally, I like the fact that I will be with my friends and they won't pass away. I'll have my ears as they should be and for the first time I'll be able to hear music for real.

                          Maybe that sounds silly to you, but I'd never get tired of listening to the choir.
                          Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                          "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                          2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                          • Originally posted by Jon Miller
                            Just because you were born a way, doesn't mean what you do is right.
                            How much of what is considered "right" is merely a social, human construct?
                            B♭3

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                            • Originally posted by Mrs Snuggles

                              So his forgiveness and love is actually quite limited.
                              He loves you, that is why He respects your decisions. At least, that is how the thinking goes, I admit that I could be wrong.

                              JM
                              (I don't agree wih universal redemption, but I understand why some think so.)
                              Jon Miller-
                              I AM.CANADIAN
                              GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                              Comment


                              • Ben, a person, free from sin, is one with a disability - born without all 5 senses.

                                That person would be alive, but he/she wouldnt know it, nor would they be physically and mentally able to sin.

                                Condemned to hell unfortunately. Where in the bible does it say that these kinds of people will be excused? And how the hell does God, or better yet, us people, know where God draws the line between being excused because of such reason, and not being excused?

                                It is ridiculously complicated, far beyond the comprehension of any human to battle their lives with. It is a complete waste of time.

                                I'm not sure what happens when you die, but I'm pretty sure nothing happens, your body returns to the earth and your brain's neurons have done its job, time to turn it off. But I wish, that just for a moment, you would be conscious just after you die, so that you can see, that you're not going anywhere.
                                be free

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