What's heaven like?

[Ben Kenobi]

1. favoring complete obedience or subjection to authority as opposed to individual freedom

How is submission to God contrary to individual freedom? I daresay we are far freer in heaven then we are here on earth.

[Ben Kenobi]

"King" is a Germanic word, so we can be pretty sure that the original Bible never used the word.

Perchance Kid means 'Rex'?

[Tuberski]

You'd be wrong. The whole point of Earth is to do what you want.

ACK!

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


How is submission to God contrary to individual freedom? I daresay we are far freer in heaven then we are here on earth.

Because when you submit to a God you submit your will completely. You no longer think for yourself. You will do whatever he says, no matter what. That is as authoritarian as you can get.

[Ben Kenobi]

Because when you submit to a God you submit you will completely. You know longer think for yourself. You will do whatever he says, no matter what. That is as authoritarian as you can get.

So you are saying Christians are free from sin after they submit themselves freely to Christ?

I think you might want to rethink your perception of submission.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

In a sense it would be the reverse of authoritarianism if that makes any sense at all.

WTF? Of course he's authoritarian. He takes a pretty dim view of privacy, for a start. After all, he thinks it's perfectly legitimate to spy on you all the time, even on your thoughts, and he's going to write it down and tell every ****er everything one day.

For example, if you sit down to Lusty Mary Crotchrocker who has the greatest boobs of all the girls in your politics lecture, he knows that you're thinking about them, and he knows that you want to fornicate with her (and he thinks that just thinking about it is as bad as doing it, so you get no brownie points for not ****ing her). Worse, if you do sleep with her, and she isn't all that, he'll know if you're thinking about Jessica Alba in order to keep it up during the event. Even worse, if you say nothing to her and go home and whack off about her, he's watching that too.

But what makes him a complete *****, is that the bastard is writing all this **** down, so that come judgement day, when every single person who ever lived is watching, he can read it out and shame you in front of everyone including Mary Crotchrocker who will probably then slap you one for being a pervert or for thinking about another woman while doinking her.

That makes him an arsehole in my book.

[Ben Kenobi]

You'd be wrong. The whole point of Earth is to do what you want.

Really? How often do you actually get to do so?

I don't see it. Earth seems to be just the opposite where you can very rarely do the things you want.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


So you are saying Christians are free from sin after they submit themselves freely to Christ?

I think you might want to rethink your perception of submission.

But are you the one deciding what sin is? And then if you are, what if you wish to change your mind? How would that work, and are you free to do so once in heaven?

[Ben Kenobi]

WTF? Of course he's authoritarian. He takes a pretty dim view of privacy, for a start. After all, he thinks it's perfectly legitimate to spy on you all the time, even on your thoughts, and he's going to write it down and tell every ****er everything one day.

He made you. I really don't see how privacy can apply to him. I don't see much value in telling him, hey why don't you **** off, when we wouldn't be here if he weren't here. I'm sure he'd be willing to do that, but I don't think we'd like that very much.

But what makes him a complete *****, is that the bastard is writing all this **** down, so that come judgement day, when every single person who ever lived is watching, he can read it out and shame you in front of everyone including Mary Crotchrocker who will probably then slap you one for being a pervert or for thinking about another woman while doinking her.

That makes him an arsehole in my book.

All true. However, everyone else is in exactly the same boat.

What have we got to boast about when each and everyone of us has done the same things?

[Ben Kenobi]

But are you the one deciding what sin is? And then if you are, what if you wish to change your mind? How would that work, and are you free to do so once in heaven?

No, sin doesn't change. Sin is sin for everyone. The way I understand heaven is that we get a whole new body that doesn't suffer the frailties that we have in our current body. It doesn't age and it doesn't decay. Same with our minds.

What do you mean by changing your mind? I think we would be permitted to leave heaven if that is your choice, I don't see God forcing us to stay if we wish to be elsewhere. I can't imagine anyone wanting to leave once they've got in.

It doesn't work the other way though. If we've decided that we don't want God in our lives, then he will accept our decision, and we will live an eternity without him.

[Kidlicious]

It's amazing you can not understand your own doublespeak.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's amazing you can not understand your own doublespeak.

If I've not understood your question, could you please rephrase?

I'm not sure I quite got what you meant about changing your mind.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
No, sin doesn't change. Sin is sin for everyone. The way I understand heaven is that we get a whole new body that doesn't suffer the frailties that we have in our current body. It doesn't age and it doesn't decay. Same with our minds.

I don't think you understand that being free means that you might do things and have ideas that are bad or wrong.

What do you mean by changing your mind? I think we would be permitted to leave heaven if that is your choice, I don't see God forcing us to stay if we wish to be elsewhere. I can't imagine anyone wanting to leave once they've got in.

No, I mean being free to sin in heaven. That is, to be free at all to do whatever you want.

It doesn't work the other way though. If we've decided that we don't want God in our lives, then he will accept our decision, and we will live an eternity without him.

So we don't have to answer his calls, or invite him to our birthday parties?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

What have we got to boast about when each and everyone of us has done the same things?

No we haven't. It's not egalitarian at all. When God announces in his booming voice, "Bradley Pitt, thou art guilty of desiring fornication with Mary Jones, a woman you randomly passed on the street on June 13th 1998", I'm betting that Mary Jones will call that one a result. On the other hand, she's almost certain to take a dim view of any Poly geek doing the same thing, so this whole scheme discriminates against nerds.

And it's important that we haven't done the same things. I'm not being put in the same pen as the bestiality people (a.k.a the Australians), thank you very much.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


If I've not understood your question, could you please rephrase?

I'm not sure I quite got what you meant about changing your mind.

I'm talking about your own language. You are saying that free is being completely under the control of another entity, like many people in China are completely under the control of their government.