War it is. Part IV.

[Riesstiu IV]

Man, some of you guys are going to give yourselves aneurisms the way your arguing now.

[Lancer]

Originally posted by PLATO


Why don't you start with having Putin bang his shoe on the lectern at the UN.

[onodera]

Originally posted by PLATO
Maybe you should have had your "peacekeepers" stop the South ossetians from provoking the Georgians by shelling them. That's what you were supposed to be there for. Of course, everybody outside of Russia knows the truth now why you were really there.

They have been shelling each other for 16 years. Should we have ventured into the Georgia proper as well to prevent the shelling from that side? No, we behaved exactly like peacekeepers in Serbia did when Albanians and Serbs fought village-on-village.
And we were there to prevent a de facto independent pro-Russian state from getting absorbed back into a not so pro-Russian, and recently openly anti-Russian state. Saakashvili thought he had the balls to solve the problem by force, he was mistaken. It used to be a Schroedinger's South Ossetia, but it's no longer one. The cat is dead, and SO is our protectorate.

[q]Why should I take the time to re-point out what has been documented in the press and even discussed in this thread? [/QUOTE]
Because I've read this thread and haven't seen anything that mentioned Russian armed forces methodically murdering civilians of Georgian nationality.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by onodera

Enlighten me. I know there's a small UN force in Iraq protecting its officials, but I haven't heard of any document that said "The USA can use their armed forces against the Iraq and have the support of the UN".

1. Notes that the presence of the multinational force in Iraq is at the request
of the Government of Iraq and reaffirms the authorization for the multinational force
S/RES/1790 (2007)
4 07-65072
as set forth in resolution 1546 (2004) and decides to extend the mandate as set forth
in that resolution until 31 December 2008, taking into consideration the Iraqi Prime
Minister’s letter dated 7 December 2007, including all of the objectives highlighted
therein, and the United States Secretary of State’s letter dated 10 December 2007;

http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N07/650/72/PDF/N0765072.pdf?OpenElement

Where is the one that authorizes Russia's presence in South ossetia either before or after your ill concieved invasion?

[PLATO]

Originally posted by onodera

They have been shelling each other for 16 years. Should we have ventured into the Georgia proper as well to prevent the shelling from that side? No, we behaved exactly like peacekeepers in Serbia did when Albanians and Serbs fought village-on-village.
And we were there to prevent a de facto independent pro-Russian state from getting absorbed back into a not so pro-Russian, and recently openly anti-Russian state. Saakashvili thought he had the balls to solve the problem by force, he was mistaken. It used to be a Schroedinger's South Ossetia, but it's no longer one. The cat is dead, and SO is our protectorate.

Perhaps you should not have voted in the UN to respect the territorial integrity of Georgia then. More Russian lies...

[onodera]

Originally posted by Riesstiu IV
Man, some of you guys are going to give yourselves aneurisms the way your arguing now.

Yeah, can't understand them at all. Georgia is a small useless country that got snubbed for not respecting its neighbour. Why so much fuss about it?

[Lancer]

PLATO, the only authorization the Russians need for anything is that they think they can get away with it.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Lancer
PLATO, the only authorization the Russians need for anything is that they think they can get away with it.

Exactly. If the Russian posters here were intellectually honest they would recognize what Putin and his lapdog have all but openly said. This is about Russia's self proclaimed "sphere of influence". It has nothing to do with the pawns of South Ossetia.

This whole mess is clearly a pre concieved Russian plan that they instituted because they thought they could get away with it.

The Russians are so intrenched in historically playing power games with their military that they don't get how much they have already lost by what they have done.

They laugh when they think they have the West over an energy barrell, but they seem incapable of calculating the cost of losing the international standing they had and having the democratic West once again turn a wary eye on them.

They stand on occupied territory having already lost much more than they could ever have gained and sadly are ignorant of that fact.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by onodera

Yeah, can't understand them at all. Georgia is a small useless country that got snubbed for not respecting its neighbour. Why so much fuss about it?

OMG. "not respecting its neighbor" is a reason for invasion?

Do Russians have a clue on how the rest of the world thinks?

[onodera]

Originally posted by PLATO

1. Notes that the presence of the multinational force in Iraq is at the request
of the Government of Iraq and reaffirms the authorization for the multinational force
S/RES/1790 (2007)
4 07-65072
as set forth in resolution 1546 (2004) and decides to extend the mandate as set forth
in that resolution until 31 December 2008, taking into consideration the Iraqi Prime
Minister’s letter dated 7 December 2007, including all of the objectives highlighted
therein, and the United States Secretary of State’s letter dated 10 December 2007;

http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N07/650/72/PDF/N0765072.pdf?OpenElement

Where is the one that authorizes Russia's presence in South ossetia either before or after your ill concieved invasion?

Yeah, we should've hanged the current and appointed our own President of Georgia like you did in Iraq. He would've written a touching letter to the UN as well, asking them to autorize the presense of Russian forces in Georgia.
But no, we simply destroyed their military and left. Should've gone for a decapitation strike, like I said.

[onodera]

Originally posted by PLATO


OMG. "not respecting its neighbor" is a reason for invasion?

Do Russians have a clue on how the rest of the world thinks?

No, murder of Russian citizens by government forces is a reason for invasion.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by onodera

Yeah, we should've hanged the current and appointed our own President of Georgia like you did in Iraq. He would've written a touching letter to the UN as well, asking them to autorize the presense of Russian forces in Georgia.
But no, we simply destroyed their military and left. Should've gone for a decapitation strike, like I said.

Hey, there is still time. Give it a try.

I assume that you will get some sort of UNSC resolution that you could legally argue gives you the authority before you invade? Oh...too late.
(BTW, don't care about anyones opinion on 1441. It at least gives an argument...which is light years ahead of anything the Russians did in their naked agression)

[Riesstiu IV]

Originally posted by onodera

Yeah, can't understand them at all. Georgia is a small useless country that got snubbed for not respecting its neighbour. Why so much fuss about it?

It will be forgotten just like Sudan conflict, Chechnya, or Afghanistan once the mass media in the US gets bored and covers something else.

Frankly, I'm surprised out how many people seem to take this invasion personally. I mean, was there this much outrage on the forum during the Iraq war or during Ethiopia's invasion of Somalia a few years back?

People think the Caucasus is some wonderful area being tyrannized by the Russians but the truth is that area of the world has always sucked and been ruled by corrupt and incompetent governments.

It's not worth risking further straining or relationship with Russia over that idiot, Saakashvili.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by onodera

No, murder of Russian citizens by government forces is a reason for invasion.

BS. The South Ossetians started it at the behest of the Russian government. Putin as much said this was going to happen a year ago.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Riesstiu IV


It will be forgotten just like Sudan conflict, Chechnya, or Afghanistan once the mass media in the US gets bored and covers something else.

Frankly, I'm surprised out how many people seem to take this invasion personally. I mean, was there this much outrage on the forum during the Iraq war or during Ethiopia's invasion of Somalia a few years back?

People think the Caucasus is some wonderful area being tyrannized by the Russians but the truth is that area of the world has always sucked and been ruled by corrupt and incompetent governments.

The reason the world looks at it differently is easy to see:

1.) Russian aggression scares the hell out of people. No one knows, except maybe Putin, if this is just the opening move or not in the reestablishment of the Russian empire

2.) Georgia is a democratically elected government with growing ties to mainstream Europe.

3.) Energy resources move through this region and Russia attempting to gain control of them worries people based on Russia's demonstrated willingness to use energy as an intimidation technique.