If Hitler had died in the summer of 1939 how would he be remembered?

[DRoseDARs]

It's a thread that never should have been.

[MrFun]

It's a thread that could have been, but wouldn't have been, and now is something that should not have been.

[Heresson]

Well, he did reduce unemployment, built highways etc, but he obtained power when the crisis was already going away. Germany wouldn't have trouble with Austria. Austrians were feeling German, and frankly were German.
Still, concentration camps, supressing of national minorities and political opposition, Cristalnacht, Nurmberg articles - all this have happened prior to ww2. So he wouldn't have been remembered as teh enlightened one, but, probably, not as teh pure evil too.

Another problem is that Hitler was modernising Germany etc in the wake of war. I don't know what would happen to German economy, with big loans, if there was no war.



Klajpeda (Memel) may have been of Lithuanian majority by ethnicity, but, sadly, it's the same case as with Masuria when it comes to Poland: Memel Lithuanians were treaditionally protestant and had strong ties with german culture, while Lithuenians were catholic and didn't have much to do with Germany. In result, if there was a plebiscite, Germany probably would have won. Lithuania seized Memel by an unilateral military action.
Today, just like in Masuria, indigenous Lithuanians are nearly all gone.

[Space05us]

Your professor is a ****, tell him to keep teaching anything other than history.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Oerdin
He did have a funny way of saying "German tanks could beat any Allied or Soviet tank six to one but those sneaky allies would always attack SEVEN to one!"

Sounds like one of the Tiger nuts over there at the Paradox fora

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
That professor was also oddly proud of saying how much better German tanks were then anyone else's. It's true the Germans had good tanks but why keep bringing that up in a math class? He did have a funny way of saying "German tanks could beat any Allied or Soviet tank six to one but those sneaky allies would always attack SEVEN to one!"

Actually, Germany achieved it's greatest victories with crappy tanks. It wasn't until the summer of '42 that they finally developed a tank that could go toe-to-toe with the Mathilda and the T-34 and KV-1. What the Germans had were great tactics, air superiority, and good towed anti-tank guns.

Well, the PzKpfw IV wasn't a crappy tank. In fact, it was in production from start to finish, but until the F2/G, its main armament was underpowered and couldn't kill a heavy tank except at point blank range.

Most of Germany's tanks, however, were PzKpfw Is, IIs, IIIs, and Czech PzKpfw 35 and 38s. These were so underpowered that the Germans had to wait for antitank guns to be brought up to bear on any enemy armor they might encounter. Hell, in Russia in '41. There are regular reports of single KV-1's holding off entire columns of German armor.

Even the best tanks the Germans produced, the Panthers and Tigers, had serious issues with their traction and frequently broke down. The Panther may have been the best tank of the war, but get a stone in its road wheels and it stopped.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by BeBro
Sounds like one of the Tiger nuts over there at the Paradox fora

Well, it was true against the Americans. Our main tank was the Sherman, and a single Tiger could hold off a hold company of Shermans, then retire when it ran out of ammo.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Space05us

A 1942 T-34 from Factory 112 in Gorky!

[Zkribbler]

Adolph who???

[Patroklos]

Well, it was true against the Americans. Our main tank was the Sherman, and a single Tiger could hold off a hold company of Shermans, then retire when it ran out of ammo.

Also true against T-34s or Crusaders.

In any event, even Chuck Lindel would eventually fall prey to 100 midgets.

[chequita guevara]

T-34s had to be able to kill Tigers, or how do you explain Kursk? Granted, I don't know much about that battle, seeing as I'm studied the worst Panzer division in German history, the 22nd. It has the ignominy of being destroyed by mice.

[chequita guevara]

I got a Stug III Ausf B. yesterday.

[Ben Kenobi]

My family was originally from Masuria, in Ortelsburg. I bet Heresson knows where that is.

It's a pity they just can't make an independent German state out of East Prussia. Maybe they can call it Prussia or something like that. Having the exclave is a relic of the cold war.

[Patroklos]

T-34s had to be able to kill Tigers, or how do you explain Kursk?

Aircraft, mechanical breakdowns, mines, manuever warfare, heavy artillery...

I honestly have never read a single account of a T-34 taking out a Tiger, let alone reliably in general combat. If you can point one out I'd be interested.

I got a Stug III Ausf B. yesterday.

Model?

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Well, it was true against the Americans. Our main tank was the Sherman, and a single Tiger could hold off a hold company of Shermans, then retire when it ran out of ammo.

If the shermans could use tactics, they could win. I think that the standard practice was to use 5 shermans per tiger (the tactics resulted in a couple rear shots).

The T-34 that the russians used later in the war had a bigger gun, an 85/86mm one, and could kill a tiger much easier than a sherman could.

Additionally, the russians had http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iosef_Stalin_tank

JM