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If Hitler had died in the summer of 1939 how would he be remembered?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Patroklos


    Also true against T-34s or Crusaders.

    In any event, even Chuck Lindel would eventually fall prey to 100 midgets.
    The Sherman and the Crusader were both light tanks while the T-34 was a medium tank. Tigers were a heavy tank so no wonder Tigers went through light tanks.

    The big American tank of the war was the M26 Pershing.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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    • #32
      The Stuart was the American light tank Oerdin, the Sherman was considered a medium tank just like the PzIV or T-34. If your tank didn't have at least a 76mm, it was useless against a Tiger of Panther which was the case for most of both the M4s and T-34s during the majoirty of the war. Even with the 76, to pierce the frontal armor of a Panther they still needed to be at close range.

      America made a concious choice not to build heavy tanks.

      Additionally, the russians had http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iosef_Stalin_tank
      The IJ of both types were "breakthrough" tanks and designed for short punches through entrenched positions more than manuever anti tank warfare. Thats not to say they were not well armed, they just were not designed with tank on tank warfare as their sole purpose...
      Last edited by Patroklos; July 22, 2008, 14:59.
      "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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      • #33
        Tiger I - Wikipedia
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_I


        The Soviets had a few responses. Among them the SU-152.

        I didn't realize how close the Shermans had to be to get a kill versus the Tiger, 100m!

        JM
        Jon Miller-
        I AM.CANADIAN
        GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

        Comment

        • #34
          SU-152.
          That was a asault gun, a whole other ball game
          "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

          Comment

          • #35
            If Pol Pot's plans to turn Kampuchea into a Worker's Paradise succeeded, he would have been remembered as one of the greatest leaders of Kampuchea ever.

            If George Bush's plans to turn Iraq into a beacon of democracy in the Middle East had succeded, he would have been remembered as one of the greatest leaders of America ever.

            If Nero's plans for urban renewal in Rome had succeeded, he would have been remembered as one of the greatest Roman emperors ever.
            B♭3

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            • #36
              Originally posted by DRoseDARs
              I just smile and nod, imagining him naked*. Makes it sooo much easier sometimes.
              Very true. People are usually more attractive before they open their mouths to talk.
              B♭3

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Jon Miller
                Tiger I - Wikipedia
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_I


                The Soviets had a few responses. Among them the SU-152.

                I didn't realize how close the Shermans had to be to get a kill versus the Tiger, 100m!

                JM
                Fortunately, Western Europe is not the Desert of the Steppe, so range mattered quite a bit less.
                Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.

                Comment

                • #38
                  Originally posted by Patroklos

                  America made a concious choice not to build heavy tanks.
                  We didn't build huge numbers of them but we did have them especially late in the war. The US began producing M26 heavy tanks in 1944 and they we being shipped to Europe by Jan 45. The M26 was also used in Korea as was the improved M26 renamed M46 Patton.
                  Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Oerdin


                    We didn't build huge numbers of them but we did have them especially late in the war. The US began producing M26 heavy tanks in 1944 and they we being shipped to Europe by Jan 45. The M26 was also used in Korea as was the improved M26 renamed M46 Patton.
                    Quite true, but they weren't available when they were most needed, that is when there still was large amounts of medium and heavy german tanks that munched shermans for breakfast.
                    With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                    Steven Weinberg

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                    • #40
                      We didn't build huge numbers of them but we did have them especially late in the war. The US began producing M26 heavy tanks in 1944 and they we being shipped to Europe by Jan 45. The M26 was also used in Korea as was the improved M26 renamed M46 Patton.
                      To late to take part in the war, if I remember correct the M26 had one armored kill in the war against a Jagdpather. The M26 didn't survive long after the war either, very few seeing service in the Korean war and the MBT concept took over after that.
                      "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Patroklos


                        That was a asault gun, a whole other ball game
                        It could kill a Tiger though...

                        JM
                        Jon Miller-
                        I AM.CANADIAN
                        GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                        Comment

                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Lonestar


                          Fortunately, Western Europe is not the Desert of the Steppe, so range mattered quite a bit less.
                          Well, that was from the back or sides (of the turret). So it was still very difficult.

                          JM
                          Jon Miller-
                          I AM.CANADIAN
                          GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                          Comment

                          • #43
                            It could kill a Tiger though...
                            A proper comparison would be to the Ferdinand/Elephant or the Jagdpanzer VI Jagdtiger Ausf.B.
                            "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

                            Comment

                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Patroklos


                              A proper comparison would be to the Ferdinand/Elephant or the Jagdpanzer VI Jagdtiger Ausf.B.
                              True, but the question was how did the Tigers get killed?

                              Also, the SU-152 came much earlier then those, and was mostly seen as infantry support. The more proper comparison to those were the SU-100 or SU-85.

                              JM
                              Jon Miller-
                              I AM.CANADIAN
                              GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                              Comment

                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Jon Miller


                                True, but the question was how did the Tigers get killed?
                                Artillery. A lot of it.

                                The most dangerous thing to a German was an American LT with a radio.
                                Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.

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