Study: Gays in the military will not undermine effectiveness

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


So you admit it's something you deal with daily, and yet it would only be a problem for you in the barracks?

My god it would suck to be you having to look at all those skin mags and hear the guys brag about their conquests.

So, straight men can be out about their heterosexuality, but gay men can't be out about their homosexuality?

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Mr Snuggles
It is demanding homosexuals not only lead a double live to not let anyone even suspect they may be gay, it is demanding they be completely celibate for all of their years of service. That's not a case of "not making an issue out of it", it's demanding that gay soldiers pretend to be straight or -- at worst -- asexual.

Sounds a bit like what the priesthood's supposed to be, no?

Also, what's wrong with pretending to be asexual?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
gay military

Do we really want to emulate the Greeks, OfitG?

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
Everyone is so mean to gays. There is simply no way we can let gays near the bullies that have weapons in the Army. If you studied friendly fire incidents throughout history, you would see the overwhelming number of victims were homosexuals, going back as far as Alexander Hamilton and Stonewall Jackson.

I am just looking out for the gay population, and everyone calls me a bigot, this is my cross to bear.

Originally posted by Wiglaf
There goes Thomas Jackson, taking it like an Old Stonewall. I was in 7th grade when I learned this, and you buffoons probably think his first name is Stonewall. Its a nickname geniuses. This place is ****ing idiotic.

Well, ****, he got us there...

[SlowwHand]

Still going on?

[Q Classic]

I'm having trouble imagining you raising the roof like that, Sloww.

[Ben Kenobi]

Hate to tell you Ben, but a large majority of service members do, in fact, join for the benefits. Or to escape from lousy living conditions, to get college money, to get medical care for their families.

Don't get me wrong. I know there are plenty who are out there like that, which is why I said what I did. I think people need to be careful to understand what they are signing up for. Yes, it's a way up and out and away for many but it's not a bed of roses. Someone who signs up because they want to serve I feel is much more likely to stay on and will make a better soldier/seaman.

Would you agree with me there?

Most of those people you mention that "stepped up and served" were drafted and required to serve. Yes, a lot served because it was the right thing to do, but they would likely have been drafted.

A draft is totally different circumstances. If a gay man got drafted, then I don't feel he has the same obligations as if he entered the service voluntarily. I'd go so far to say that they should be exempt.

A volunteer service needs benefits to get people to serve. "Stepping up and serving" does you no good if your family isn't taken care of.

I am proud of my service, but if there weren't any benefits to my service, I probably wouldn't have served.

I think they should get benefits, but honestly, it's not a job for a family man. My uncle ran into that problem. He quit to become one and then found he missed the sea. At least with you, you got out early enough that you could adjust back.

Another thing, because of don't ask, don't tell, gays don't get all the benefits of a straight service member. Therefore, I must conclude that the majority of gay soldiers are the most dedicated and willing to step up and give their lives for their country.

True, someone who is like Wittlich who serves anyways, should be proud of their service. I just don't think it's a good idea to go in and demand that the military change to suit you. That doesn't strike me as the profile of a successful soldier.

Think about it.

I think I already said, it doesn't matter to me if a serviceman is gay or straight so long as he is American.

[Ben Kenobi]

So, straight men can be out about their heterosexuality, but gay men can't be out about their homosexuality?

It's like when you are serving with a woman. No different. I really don't see why gays would be bothered by men expressing interest in women, but I can see why a woman would be bothered with the men acting their usual self.

[Asher]

He quit to become one and then found he missed the sea.

If your family is anything like you, I can see why he missed the solitude of the sea.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I really don't see why gays would be bothered by men expressing interest in women

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi's inner soul
I really don't see why straights would be bothered by men expressing interest in men

[Theben]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
Go get hit by a bus, Rufus T. ****fly, you think you have insulted me but you have really insulted the special Olympics

That is freaking awesome.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


It's like when you are serving with a woman. No different. I really don't see why gays would be bothered by men expressing interest in women, but I can see why a woman would be bothered with the men acting their usual self.

It's a bit silly.

Really, straight men? Just because you're a guy doesn't mean a gay man wants to do you.

I'm sure there are women out there that straight men don't want to do.

And just because a gay guy is out doesn't lead to the condition that when he acts his 'usual self', that he's trying to screw anything that has three legs.

[Wittlich]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
It's like when you are serving with a woman. No different. I really don't see why gays would be bothered by men expressing interest in women, but I can see why a woman would be bothered with the men acting their usual self.

Ben, I find your last portion of your passage a bit confusing. What do you mean by "a woman would be bothered with the men acting their usual self"? For some reason, I can't make sense of it.

[Lonestar]

The study should have said "Gays will not undermine unit cohesion any more than having womenfolk in the military will.(and probably a great deal less)"

Having said that, if women are permitted in the military, then gays should be allowed to openly serve.

[Zevico]

I am given to understand that the army has strict rules regarding sex while "on-duty" or "off-duty." This discussion will not lead anywhere whilst these terms remain undefined, as it seems that some people here (myself included) do not know what they mean.
If a knowledgeable poster could summarise, post, or link to, the rules regarding sexual acts in the military, we may actually go somewhere with this discussion. Otherwise those who have not served (and perhaps those who have not served in a while) will simply not understand what they are arguing for or against.