Bookstores and Responsibility

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Mr Snuggles
I'm not sure why providing health information on food packages to promote public health is at all comparable to forcing Barnes and Nobles to prominently "warn" that they may be stocking books on sexuality.

One is public health, the other is Ben Kenobi not wanting to come within 100 feet of someone acknowledging sexuality.

Bingo. Ingredients on food labels are for public health, which is considered of such importance that the government is expected to mandate food companies include them.

No way near as comparable to forcing booksellers to say they have books which show boobs inside. Which, is, btw, completely ****ing obvious (what do you think the sex help section has in it? Birds and bees?). If one has ever set foot in an B&N or Borders or any other non-puritan bookstore of any size, that stuff is going to be in there.

I don't believe (and neither do a majority of consumers, obviously) that showing boobs is that important to mandate the sellers to indicate that they do so. So yes, as in most things, it's buyer beware. Or, do your ****ing research.

Businesses should express clearly what it is they sell

So, you want them to put a list of every book that may be offensive to some nutjobs on the front of every store? What about Vatican banned books? On the front as well?

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm asking what the purpose of the warning is,

To inform the customer beforehand, so they can choose whether or not to enter.

I've said that like 4 times already Asher.

And Kid's assumption is without merit. Barnes and Nobles is a huge chain.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


To inform the customer beforehand, so they can choose whether or not to enter.

I've said that like 4 times already Asher.

Then you're not disagreeing with me. The idea is people can decide "I'm so deeply offended by the penis, I won't be anywhere near the store that contains even one picture of one."

I also move then that stores display on their door a list of all books they carry that contain references to God, Jesus, Hinduism, Child Pornography (typically in the "Catholic" section, IIRC), NFL football, southern cooking, and history of Mennonites. All of these subjects are something I do not wish to be anywhere near, nor have my children exposed to.

I'm sure if Apolyton collaborated we'd have quite a list of materials bookstores should disclose.

On the other hand, maybe people can assume book stores will carry content of all kinds. That's just crazy talk, though.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
And Kid's assumption is without merit. Barnes and Nobles is a huge chain.

What does the size matter? Just walk into one of them and check out the atmosphere, and what books they are prominently displaying. The marketers know who their customers are. They clearly target liberals with music, the coffee shops and the whole thing.

[Ben Kenobi]

No way near as comparable to forcing booksellers to say they have books which show boobs inside. Which, is, btw, completely ****ing obvious (what do you think the sex help section has in it?

I don't think it's obvious when I enter the store that they will be selling explicit materials, and I'm sure others will say the same.

The big bookstore here does not and has not done so. Why would I assume automatically that Barnes and Nobles is selling explicit materials?

So, you want them to put a list of every book that may be offensive to some nutjobs on the front of every store?

I think they should be honest for once and have a tag when you enter saying "this store sells explicit books". Enter at your own risk.

What about Vatican banned books? On the front as well?

Oh right. And bookstores don't have a censored list too. You'd be very shocked if you realise the stuff that the chains REFUSE to sell.

If the chains can police the public and act as censors, then they should also warn the public about the explicit materials they choose to sell.

Bottom line. If the bookstores simply publish any and all books, then I would agree with you they shouldn't have to publish a warning. But they don't so they should have to warn people. They are not a public service, they are a private business.

[Imran Siddiqui]

On the other hand, maybe people can assume book stores will carry content of all kinds. That's just crazy talk, though.

*faints*

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I don't think it's obvious when I enter the store that they will be selling explicit materials, and I'm sure others will say the same.

Yes it is.

The big bookstore here does not and has not done so. Why would I assume automatically that Barnes and Nobles is selling explicit materials?

What is the "big bookstore"? Is it a Christian bookstore, perhaps? And have you gone into the sex help or photography sections of this bookstore?

I think they should be honest for once and have a tag when you enter saying "this store sells explicit books". Enter at your own risk.

What about tags saying "this store sells religious bull**** books"?

Oh right. And bookstores don't have a censored list too. You'd be very shocked if you realise the stuff that the chains REFUSE to sell.

Way to avoid the point. Should they put up the list of Vatican censored books? Why or why not?

Answer the ****ing question for once.

Bottom line. If the bookstores simply publish any and all books, then I would agree with you they shouldn't have to publish a warning. But they don't so they should have to warn people. They are not a public service, they are a private business.

And as a private business, you, the consumer, have the responsibility to know what you are going into. It's like walking into a Victoria's Secret and getting offended there is skimpy lingerie! Live in the real world, Ben.

[Ben Kenobi]

Then you're not disagreeing with me. The idea is people can decide "I'm so deeply offended by the penis, I won't be anywhere near the store that contains even one picture of one."

Yes, right now they can't and are not informed of such.

I also move then that stores display on their door a list of all books they carry that contain references to God, Jesus, Hinduism, Child Pornography (typically in the "Catholic" section, IIRC), NFL football, southern cooking, and history of Mennonites. All of these subjects are something I do not wish to be anywhere near, nor have my children exposed to.

Fair enough. If I ran a Catholic bookstore I'd add up at the front. This is a Catholic bookstore. Any materials deemed offensive by the management we will not carry. Sorry for the inconvenience.

On the other hand, maybe people can assume book stores will carry content of all kinds. That's just crazy talk, though.

They don't, actually. The bookstores up here in Canada, have a very selective list of books they censor. I think it would be very interesting if Chapters were to release the publications they choose not to carry.

[Asher]

You're so crazy. Not worth the bandwidth to argue with you any more.

I am more than ever convinced you are some pathological DL. No one can be this genuinely stupid.

[Ben Kenobi]

Yes it is.

Then Barnes and Nobles should be labelled an Adult Store.

If I want porn I can go to an adult store.

What is the "big bookstore"? Is it a Christian bookstore, perhaps? And have you gone into the sex help or photography sections of this bookstore?

It's called Gundy's. It's been here like 50 years at least. No, it's not a Christian bookstore. No, they do not have a 'sex help' or a 'pornography' section.

What about tags saying "this store sells religious bull**** books"?

I've seen them.

Way to avoid the point. Should they put up the list of Vatican censored books? Why or why not?

If they choose to exclude those books, yes they should. I'm all for free enterprise AND customer information.

And as a private business, you, the consumer, have the responsibility to know what you are going into. It's like walking into a Victoria's Secret and getting offended there is skimpy lingerie! Live in the real world, Ben.

So Barnes and Nobles advertises that they carry porn? I agree. Victoria's Secret advertises that they carry ligerie, so I expect to see lingerie in the store.

If you can find an advertisement that shows that Barnes and Nobles sells porn, then I will concede my case. Otherwise I have no reason to assume that they do.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Why would I assume automatically that Barnes and Nobles is selling explicit materials?

Have you ever been in a Barnes and Nobles?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Then Barnes and Nobles should be labelled an Adult Store.

If I want porn I can go to an adult store.

Asher is right.

"You're so crazy. Not worth the bandwidth to argue with you any more."

What, you protest art museums on the basis that they have PORN in their collection and don't warn people?

It's called Gundy's. It's been here like 50 years at least. No, it's not a Christian bookstore. No, they do not have a 'sex help' or a 'pornography' section.

I love how you call "photography" to be "pornography". Shows your bias on the matter.

And I'm guessing you just haven't looked hard enough. Look in the photography section next time. And if there isn't a "sex help" section, it'll be under 'self help' or 'relationships' (what can I say, I was smart teenager ).

And what kind of bookstore doesn't have a website?

If they choose to exclude those books, yes they should. I'm all for free enterprise AND customer information.

So you aren't really for private ownership. Private bookstores can carry whatever books they want. I don't see why if they exercise their free speech rights, they are required to tell everyone every potentially offensive book that may be in the store.

You are freaking loony.

So Barnes and Nobles advertises that they carry porn? I agree. Victoria's Secret advertises that they carry ligerie, so I expect to see lingerie in the store.

B&N advertises they sell are sorts of books. That would include those with boobs, whether they be photography books or relationship help books.

Btw, I don't consider either of those porn, and I doubt the majority of B&N clientele does either.

OTOH, rubes who think Michaelango's David is porn may have a problem with it, but **** them.

If you are really this concerned, just boycott. If any crazies see your point, B&N will do it to appease y'all.

[Ben Kenobi]

What, you protest art museums on the basis that they have PORN in their collection and don't warn people?

I expect art museums to be flakey.

I love how you call "photography" to be "pornography". Shows your bias on the matter.

You don't consider Playboy to be pornography?

And I'm guessing you just haven't looked hard enough. Look in the photography section next time. And if there isn't a "sex help" section, it'll be under 'self help' or 'relationships' (what can I say, I was smart teenager).

You are telling me you know the store better then I do? That takes a special brand of arrogance.

And what kind of bookstore doesn't have a website?

It's not a chain I'm afraid. Do you believe all quality bookstores are chains?

So you aren't really for private ownership. Private bookstores can carry whatever books they want.

Sure, I believe that. Where have I said they shouldn't be permitted to include whatever books they want to include.

I don't see why if they exercise their free speech rights, they are required to tell everyone every potentially offensive book that may be in the store.

Yessir. How is that a violation of their right to carry whatever books they want?

B&N advertises they sell are sorts of books. That would include those with boobs, whether they be photography books or relationship help books.

Do they advertise they sell porn? Yes or no. Answer the question please.

Btw, I don't consider either of those porn, and I doubt the majority of B&N clientele does either.

Ahh, so we get to the crux of the matter. I guess Barnes and Nobles would rather have their ass sued when the porn gets pulled off the shop by the kiddos.

[Ramo]

OTOH, rubes who think Michaelango's David is porn may have a problem with it, but **** them.

The Sistine Chapel should have a sign "Contains ghey pron" in front.

[Ben Kenobi]

http://local.canadaspace.com/listings/british_columbia/prince_george/books/gundys_news_supply_ltd/

There you go Imran.

Care to lecture me on how the store contains explicit materials when you've never been in there?

Yes, I've been in Barnes and Nobles before, and no, I wouldn't expect them to carry porn based on how they market themselves.

I also wouldn't expect them to freely advertise which books they censor either.