Bookstores and Responsibility

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Lorizael


Having previously worked at a Barnes & Noble, I can tell you that the only pr0n carried by the company is in the pages of magazines like PlayBoy, which are always sealed (or should always be) and kept out of reach of children.

What this guy found was not porn but a book that should have been in the sex/relationships (I don't remember it's exact name anymore) section of the bookstore. That section contains a number of books about sex and the vast majority of them have to do with good old fashioned penis in vagina sex, not that dirty dirty homogayfag sex.

There's a book called The Joy of Gay Sex, and has gone through a few editions over the years.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by rah

And with thousands and thoushands of books, short of having ratings on them, I can't hold bookstores for knowing about every possible thing someone MIGHT find offensive in every single book.

Besides real religious types would probably find offense with almost every book in the romance section. Or even in the plain fiction section. Characters are having sex in over 50% of books in the book store I would guess.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


I live in Canada, which is a totalitarian state.

No distorted viewpoint there, eh?

[McCrea]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Movies are required to list whether they are R rated.

Then, after we rate the movies, we rate the previews.

And it gets revised every few years. This inefficency is what people like me seek to eliminate. (I wish I knew a social term for it, but I don't. anti-bureaucracy seems very vague.). It's not possible to do it to everyone's satisfaction. The more detailed it is, the harder and more costly it is to enforce [The Defendant is charged with releasing a movie rated R18PXJUT49 instead of R18PXJUT50. The victim suffered undue stress.] It's not practical. I have often heard "I don't know what the ratings mean any more; theres too many." I don't even know what they are, because I watch a whopping 2 movies a year.

Not sarcastically -- How about we put generic covers on all books, and keep all stocked books closed, and, if thats not enough, have book perusing rooms like dressing rooms? [hey -- whew -- *something productive* No good perhaps, but I am trying and not just arguing.] Extra costs are covered by the consumer/business relationship as the extra advertising space on the generic covers, where such ads are regulated by appropriate existing legislation. That also eliminates marginal false adverting, and in fact the most cliche -- "never judge a book by its cover". I know I've been fooled before.
^Actually not extra cost, extra "inconvienence of time to identify a volume". publishing cost is slightly reduced]

Are all books inherently dangerous? We specifically list some which are considered beneficial. A better example would be like mushrooms. Some are poisonous...

I can eat any book. I've tried and haven't died or knowingly suffered yet. Even if I am uncomfortable, I wholely blame myself. Everyone can't eat just any mushroom, or so I'm told (Note that my father told me this; the forest doesn't have a sign on it.)

The question I have is if there is a simple step which the store can do to help parents, they should do so.

Huh? Ok then lets ask the store to put up a sign. Are thy refusing to? I might have missed.

The question I hold is judgement. Might the books be dangerous? I say no. That guy says "yes", and still wont accept responsibility? [And I'm still dodging the article. If that guy didn't see that blatantly displayed book before his child did, he's not going to see a sign. If he wasn't so busy looking for signs, he might have seen the book.]

I'm a big believer in truth in advertising.

Oh yeah, certianly. If there's any evidence the store was hiding the fact they have adult material, burn it!

I think innocence is precious, and delicate. We should let kids be kids, and not have to be adults.

We disagree. My further reply was off topic.

Neither is it a cure to expose a child to all knowledge.

Which was never proposed. (Want to yell "out of line!" but I am smiling, not infuriated
_____
All in all, I like your prospective parenting.

I missed that you were Canadian, my bad, lol. -- Our soceities are presumably on different pages (or hell, probably in different books. Might explain the atheism difference, for one.)

[rah]

I think any store which caters to kids doesn't really need to sell explicit books. Two radically different market niches. This is why they are getting conflicts anyways, so really one or the other should go.

Yes, in a perfect world this might be nice. But it's not a perfect world. Get your head out of the sand. Almost all the specialty bookstores have gone out of business due to the competition from the large chains. Catering to a small niche in the book world is a recipe for bankruptcy. It's even starting to happen with the small used book stores.

So instead of asking for more regulations, try a little common sense. And I hope that if someone ever decides that you're worthy of contributing to the gene pool, you'll show more responsibility than only expecting danger when you see a sign warning you of it.
Life doesn't always come with warning signs. Especially for those instances where common sense should be enough.

[Asher]

Originally posted by MrFun


There's a book called The Joy of Gay Sex, and has gone through a few editions over the years.

Yes, but before that book there was a "The Joy of Sex", which is for heterosexuals...

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I live in Canada, which is a totalitarian state.

[Japher]

ppl still buy books?

[Ben Kenobi]

Yes, in a perfect world this might be nice. But it's not a perfect world. Get your head out of the sand. Almost all the specialty bookstores have gone out of business due to the competition from the large chains. Catering to a small niche in the book world is a recipe for bankruptcy. It's even starting to happen with the small used book stores.

It depends totally on where you live. Small towns aren't a market for the big chains, and in larger areas, you have a larger niche. Bookstores aren't going out of business because of the large chains, but because they do a poor job with their business.

So instead of asking for more regulations, try a little common sense. And I hope that if someone ever decides that you're worthy of contributing to the gene pool, you'll show more responsibility than only expecting danger when you see a sign warning you of it.

For myself? I wouldn't shop in anywhere that refuses to carry the publications I write for. I don't mind being selective in where I shop, and buying books from a place that agrees with my concerns.

Yes, it means I don't shop at Chapters but there are plenty of better bookstores out there with better selection and no agenda.

Life doesn't always come with warning signs. Especially for those instances where common sense should be enough.

I don't see the regulation as particularly onerous, and I'm rather disappointed so many people who are parents seem to not get it. Oh well.

Oh, and you've got a pm.

[Ben Kenobi]

And it gets revised every few years. This inefficency is what people like me seek to eliminate. (I wish I knew a social term for it, but I don't.

It wouldn't be necessary, but the fact is a lower rating means more profit so people always push the edges. If more producers realised that people tend to like movies without the rest of the garbage, then things would be much easier.

Not sarcastically -- How about we put generic covers on all books, and keep all stocked books closed, and, if thats not enough, have book perusing rooms like dressing rooms?

One sign and then it immediately becomes the decision at that point to enter or not, which bypasses all these other problems.

I can eat any book. I've tried and haven't died or knowingly suffered yet. Even if I am uncomfortable, I wholely blame myself. Everyone can't eat just any mushroom, or so I'm told (Note that my father told me this; the forest doesn't have a sign on it.)

No it doesn't but the forest is different from a business. Not all books are appropriate for children, and a business that chooses to sell explicit material should advertise the fact. I'm really not understanding all the hostility to this, I'm thinking of a small sticker on the entrance of the store.

Huh? Ok then lets ask the store to put up a sign. Are thy refusing to? I might have missed.

Then we are in agreement.

[rah]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

It depends totally on where you live. Small towns aren't a market for the big chains, and in larger areas, you have a larger niche. Bookstores aren't going out of business because of the large chains, but because they do a poor job with their business.

1. I guarentee you that small towns can't support multiple book stores.

2. Yes smaller bookstores are going out of business because of the large chains because the can't compete price wise and can't afford to offer all the other services that the chains do. There is not a single non-chain bookstore within 20 mile of my house anymore. There used to be dozens. I read a lot and was familiar with most of the owners since I spent a lot of time in many of them. And guess what, they all said the same thing right before they went out of business. They couldn't compete. Based on your comment, every single one of them did a poor job.

So please find an arguement that is not totally fantasy on your part.

[snoopy369]

Does anyone else find it amusing that in this thread Ben is arguing for government restriction and in the other he is arguing for the opposite (and with equally absurd arguments)?

[Asher]

It may've been amusing when Ben first joined this site, now it's just old. We need the government to step in and ban Ben from the internet.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Does anyone else find it amusing that in this thread Ben is arguing for government restriction and in the other he is arguing for the opposite (and with equally absurd arguments)?

Yep -- Ben sure has no problems wanting government to enact new, onerous, burdensome regulations on businesses such as bookstores.

But when government enacts laws expanding civil rights to minority groups -- then it becomes a totalitarian state!

[monolith94]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Shouldn't be the responsibility of the customer. If they have them, they should inform folks before they go in.

customers also have a responsibility: to not be idiots.

I have no problem with B&N having their sex book section, although it is true that I don't speak this from the perspective of a parent. However, I do hope that if I ever do have children, it will not cause me to all of a sudden to believe in the infringement of private rights to freedom of expression.