Firefox 3 final is out now.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
I DELIBERATELY chose a terrible design?

One of the parts of your design, a part you deliberately chose, is terrible.

So go away, I didn't design this for people like you, you are the 10% developers and designers say "**** the 10%, just **** them whingy babies!".

Where'd you get the idea that I'm a web developer? I don't know any more HTML than italics and bold tags. I write real code.

edit: though I have been dealing with JavaScript for the past week, 'cause of the goddamn build configuration system

[FrostyBoy]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
I DELIBERATELY chose a terrible design?

One of the parts of your design, a part you deliberately chose, is terrible.

Yeah? Which one?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
Yeah? Which one?

The part I complained about, duh?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Wait a sec... you think that hidden windows is a good thing? I HATE hidden windows. I'd rather you give me another page for it.

I agree that vertical writing with the letters facing sideways is just about always a bad idea.

I don't think its horrible... but I do think that site would annoy me.

[FrostyBoy]

It's ok, the website will provide a downloadable PDF of the form for nerds.

I promise to use no design and colour on the downloadable forms.

Even better, I will provide two documents, a normal one, with design, etc.

And a nerd one.

Normal: Click here to download.
Nerds: Click here to download.

Everyone's happy! Except Kuci, who, even tho is a nerd, is still always unhappy. He's like the defense minister from Independence Day.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeeeah... if that's the attitude you have, you'll have to deal with more than a few customers who are annoyed... you can call them nerds

[EPW]

It looks nice, but what do those colors mean on the accommodations screen?

[FrostyBoy]

Green = A lot of rooms
Yellow = Running out of rooms
Red = No rooms

[FrostyBoy]

Here Kuci, I made something just for you.

[Asher]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy

Writing on the left side is a verticle DESIGN, its not important to the visitor. It's simply design. Surely you did realise that?

It is "just a design"? They are in no way functional links? That's a terrible design, if so. Either way, not good.

Anyway, these sorts of things are opinion based, some people will drool over the design and copy me, others will puke on their screen, what to do? Say it with me "**** it".

From a functionality standpoint -- which is what designers really should be taking into consideration -- it is not opinion based. It has been scientifically proven that people read such text MUCH slower than traditionally oriented text. Not many professional sites use that design for this reason. In addition, screens are WIDER than they are TALL, but this awkward design choice takes up much vertical screen realestate and virtually no horizontal.

This isn't opinion, this is fact-based usability design.

"Too much bland solid colours", as opposed to too little vibrant patterned colours? No Asher, no.

Indeed, no, that is not what I said -- it's not binary. The site is simply too colorful, it looks like a toy site designed by a 15 year old girl.

Room availability grid is still under construction, reason why the hotel names are above the row, is because sometimes you get 10 days, and hotel names with 50 characters, see the problem?

No, I do not. You're clearly not capable of seeing my concern anyway -- the problem is there's no visual grouping of the data, no instantly-recognizable visual divider between hotels and availabilities. Again, it's a crap design -- even for a first draft.

Legend is still under consideration, we're not sure if we want to show the number and or their meaning just yet. Big boss is still deciding on this.

Terrible excuse, for such a simple chart it can easily be designed without the need for a legend. Why are you showing me unfinished work anyway?

Actually, the page is very easy to flow through, it's only heavy if you open all the hidden windows, hence why they are closed on opening, and you open them only when you need them. It's really a basic page.

Few comments:
1) If you've got all of the functionality on one page, it is considered "heavy".
2) Hidden windows? Awful. Terrible idea.

Here in Singapore, I have given a number of lectures on design to students.

Well, this certainly explains why no good websites have ever come out of Singapore.

So you, a developer, teaching me lessons about design, well... I think you know what i'm going to say.

I think you don't do your job very well. I think I can, and do, do better jobs with interface design. Mind you, I do not design webpages. The apps I design are real applications -- I don't design apps as important as hotel reservation tools, just applications that direct billions of dollars of trades in a fast-paced work environment. You think your designs are good? They're not. They may be "acceptable" given you're designing them for unimportant markets (thus my "C" rating), but if you designed it for a market where speed and clarity are of the UTMOST importance (eg, investment banking), you'd fail miserable.

Yes, I'm a developer. I'm also somebody that's taken several usability courses in human-computer interfaces and it's something I'm also interested in on a personal level. Just because I've got the intelligence to code HTML and CSS to a standard, in addition to coding in programming languages from assembler up through C# and PHP and Javascript, doesn't mean I'm precluded from understanding good interface design.

Is this the end of the story yet?

The story ended a long time ago for you. This is the epilogue.

[FrostyBoy]

Thanks for your input Asher, but it's worthless.

[Asher]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
Green = A lot of rooms
Yellow = Running out of rooms
Red = No rooms

Why the hell would you have three colours?

All a user cares about is if a room is available. You're overcomplicating the design. Additionally, there's not a simple concept of "rooms" -- how many single rooms are left? How about doubles? Your table doesn't correspond to the chart directly below it in any discernible fashion.

Frosty, in all seriousness, you should consider learning about Task-based Usability design. It's quite apparent to me your background as a graphical designer has you designing what you deem to be aesthetically pleasing and then hacking an interface into that somehow. What you should be doing is identifying what the common tasks are, and then design the interface around most efficiently completing these tasks.

Aesthetics are important for customer-facing interfaces, but usability is always most important. You need to adjust your design priorities.

[Asher]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
Thanks for your input Asher, but it's worthless.

Hey, whatever. I'm making very valid criticisms from both my experience as a software consultant designing interfaces for VERY picky clients as well as my university education in human-computer interfaces. If you don't want to make use of this resource, that's your problem.

But it certainly explains why you don't understand the concept of coding to standards, nor the concept of functional website design.

[FrostyBoy]

Again, worthless.

You don't seem to understand this business, yet you (bravely I might add) argue what i'm doing wrong.

Asher, I can't convince you, it's near impossible, if I say 1+1 = 2, you won't say that you agree, you just simply won't reply to it.

You push your 'facts' on to opinions. That sounds like me... when I was 17! Seriously, any respect that I may have had for you is quickly spiraling down the toilet.

[Asher]

You're out of this world, Frosty. You don't even pretend to know what you're talking about anymore -- you can't provide any valid, realistic rebuttal to the points I've made.

That really says it all.

Final tip for you if you're serious about doing design as a career: Study O'Reilly's book "Designing Interfaces". It's not as academic as the stuff I studied in school, but it's great as a resource for designers (it uses small words and avoids UI principles that involve formulae).