Firefox 3 final is out now.

[MikeH]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
Green = A lot of rooms
Yellow = Running out of rooms
Red = No rooms

This is really bad for accessibility. Lots of people are colourblind and red/green is the most common form. Anyone who's actually blind and accessing the site on a screen reader is screwed.

http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/#gl-color

The accessibility guidelines are there for a reason. Every web developer needs to be thinking about access by people with special needs whether it be visual impairments, ability to access the site without a mouse or whatever.

[FrostyBoy]

That's true Mike, but this form is Asher-safe. You don't need to think too much to do book a hotel. If you try to book a hotel during a time that has no rooms available, you simply won't be able to do it.

[FrostyBoy]

Originally posted by Nikolai
drop down menus? The ones that disappear if you go one pixel too far off? I hate them.

I've not experienced this, what are you on about? What's your preferred method?

[MikeH]

You can't really be happy that anyone with a visual impairment has to use trial and error to find a hotel with available rooms?

8% of men are colour blind, 2% of women. In total about the same percentage of website users will be colourblind as the percentage of web users that use Safari, but I bet you make sure your site is useable for Safari users.

[FrostyBoy]

We ask the dates first. You can't see it in the screenshots.

Usually, delegates have already booked their flight, and already know when they're coming, so they don't need to play around with the dates as much as you might think, they just need an available hotel.

Don't forget, boss is working out whether he wants to show the actual number of rooms available or not. I have suggested that we do (I believe in giving the user the power), he - being a business man - will not believe in that. So it's a matter of time.

[MikeH]

"Being a business man"? Who do you think we all develop for?

In my experience business people care strongly about accessibility. Especially in countries where there's a legal requirement.

[FrostyBoy]

We develop for those who tell us what to do even when we say they're wrong.

Yes, they care strongly about accessibility, treat customer well, etc etc, but when it comes to numbers, bosses get nervous and wonder whether to show it or not. Like I said, I have already told him that it's fine, no risk in showing the numbers, but he, being paranoid, won't immediately agree. He needs time to think it through. Remember, these rooms are blocked by contract from each hotel we negotiate with. It can get messy, especially here in Asia.

[MikeH]

You don't need the number of rooms just some text on the boxes telling you what the box means. Like this:

Green = Rooms Available
Yellow = Few Rooms Available
Red = No Rooms Available

Part of getting good developers to do your designs for you is that they tell you the stuff you need to know in areas like accessibility. Sometimes it's a tough conversation to have, but the customer isn't always right. Where they have a design opinion that's different, cool. Do it there way, if it's a standards or accessibility issue, you don't give them an option just explain to them that's the way things are.

Business people care about making money. They generally understand that accessibility is about making sure the maximum number of customers can use their service. "So, shall we put some text in these coloured boxes or shall we piss off 5% of your customers? They'll probably just go to a rival site."

Ok, so maybe in this specific example it's not customers, and there is no alternative site. The principle still stands.

[Sirotnikov]

frosty, I realize you're probably a much better graphical artist than i will ever be.

but this list is wrong:

I design brochures, postcards, logos, emblems, posters, massive backdrops, letterheads, websites, leaflets, business cards, CD covers, folder covers, book covers, book pages, stickers, odd ****

websites are NOT brochures, postcards, logos, emblems, posters, letterheads etc...

websites belong to a different design list called application user interfaces.

what sets them apart is that they are an active medium that requires user interaction. they are a UI driven system.
that is whole lot different from logo / brochure design.

there's a reason why there are no usability guidelines for making brochures and there are for websites - it's a whole different animal.

as per your example -
on the whole your site looks pretty, and since i only have partial screens i can't really comment on its design.

the fact that you're doing it professionally is great but it means little, because there are tons of professional designers that make websites, sell them to business people and then the websites don't do very well even though they are pretty.

so you shouldn't brush off criticism of your web skills, no matter what experience you've got. and even though your sites are easy to sell to bosses.

and to come back to the original point of the argument between you and asher - when you make websites, it is equally as important to design your code well, because it will require maintenance, rebuilding at what not.

so aesthetical design is one thing, functional design is another, and HTML / CSS developement is a third, different profession. it requires less shortcuts and more good supportable code standards. it also requires the code to be easy to read for the different platforms.

this is something that you should look into, to complement your graphic skills.

best of luck

[FrostyBoy]

Mike, your solution wouldn't solve colourblind problems.

And yes, there will be a legend, just not yet, the application is still 8 months from release. The main problem now is making sure the grid looks nice and functions well, once thats done I will figure out where to put the legend.

[FrostyBoy]

Siro, fully aware. Never lecture the lecturer.

[MikeH]

Yes it would. The label goes INSIDE the boxes, for every box.

[Q Classic]

Don't care about the looks of that site.

What's the code?

[FrostyBoy]

.NET, a bit of CSS, AJAX, js.

[Asher]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
Next you'll be advising me to read books from Dr. Jakob Nielsen.

Yes, you should -- that was actually required reading ("Usability Engineering") for one of my HCI classes.