Firefox 3 final is out now.

[Asher]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
By realising your defeat and shutting up.

I'm looking for the MUTE button first.

Do you know how to make an iframe?

[FrostyBoy]

Sure, I can make a collapsible window too and with it I can also make it so that all posts made by Mr Snuggles are automically closed.

It's a shame Apolyton.net is still stuck in the late 90's.

[Asher]

You should make an iframe which adds you to everyone's buddy list. Can you do that?

[Kuciwalker]

Not if you put him on ignore.

[FrostyBoy]

We should start a petition to have Apolyton upgraded to today's standards.

Mrs Snuggles can be the developer, Mr Snuggles can be Mr Negative Man - always complaining that nothing is right unless it's done his way.

[Asher]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
We should start a petition to have Apolyton upgraded to today's standards.

Mrs Snuggles can be the developer, Mr Snuggles can be Mr Negative Man - always complaining that nothing is right unless it's done his way.

By "my way" surely you mean "correctly".

[Q Classic]

Actually, in this case, I think I'm quite safe in saying that my ideas of what makes for good code match the Mr.'s.

[MikeH]

I had missed that FrostyBoy was a graphic designer. Explains everything.

Other web developers might not believe this but I did once meet one who understood web design.

[McCrea]

Oh, there were changes? I hadn't noticed, but now that I look, I guess the uri bar is a little different -- how I have no clue *shrug*.

Was a bummer downloading at 9K/s rather than 250.

[Sirotnikov]

First of all, taking other people's designs and building off them is a bit low of you if you're a webdesigner, unless of course you need to copy it for a specific reason. (Which I have to do on some occasions too).

i don't know what your design skills are beyond graphics, but you obviously don't know what it's like to support a web-application or a serious living web-site project.

I understand that you probably only do the graphics, and then quickly implement it in HTML code.

That is because you probably, have rarely had the need to separate design from content, because you probably rarely had to design an actual system, that has non-graphic elements or that has to be supported for years.

If you had such experience you would have certainly realized that the post you referred to did not talk about design rip-off but about support and adaption of an existing website. I assume that you never think about this option, and I assume that your clients never do because they are small scale.

On some occasions, I am in a meeting and have to quickly show the clients examples,

i see no reason why your clients should see HTML coded examples, instead of graphic sketches. Even photoshop sketches are way too much for that stage.

I see no reason why your clients can't believe you can implement a colorful horizontal line without proof of it existing in an IE window.

if I have to code in CSS it takes a little more time than plain IE code.

using shortcuts to achieve speed is great.

the question is

a) why do you use live HTML for graphic concept presentations instead of doing it in a graphic program / concept PPT?

b) do you ever reuse the IE 'shortcut' code in the actual webpage? If you do - that's poor standards.

[Hueij]

Originally posted by Mr Snuggles

They're not problems. If a webpage renders in standards mode, **** like this:
< hr color=#CCCCCC size=1 >

won't work.

Eh, except for the missing quotes, isn't this totally valid HTML? I know it isn't recommended practice but AFAIK nowhere in the standards it is said that it is non-valid.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Hueij

Eh, except for the missing quotes, isn't this totally valid HTML? I know it isn't recommended practice but AFAIK nowhere in the standards it is said that it is non-valid.

"color" is not an attribute for HR in the HTML spec. I linked it already in this thread. That would make it non-valid.

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/graphics.html#h-15.3

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
First of all, taking other people's designs and building off them is a bit low of you if you're a webdesigner, unless of course you need to copy it for a specific reason. (Which I have to do on some occasions too).

i don't know what your design skills are beyond graphics, but you obviously don't know what it's like to support a web-application or a serious living web-site project.

I understand that you probably only do the graphics, and then quickly implement it in what seems to be poor HTML code.

That is because you probably, have rarely had the need to separate design from content, because you probably rarely had to design an actual system, that has non-graphic elements or that has to be supported for years.

I can't believe I missed that from FrostyBoy.

But what Siro's said is pretty much spot on.

I don't take pride in my work, no graphic designer would, all designers hate their own work; if you were one, you should know this.

I'm not some ****ing "designer". I'm a developer. And thus, I don't care what you think about your work, as long as the design I receive isn't written in **** code.

I was implying that IE SUPPORTS other methods that Firefox doesn't.

That's not necessarily a good thing.

Windows XP still supports archaic methods from the days before Win98, many of which are the very reasons why Windows crashes so much. "Flexible", but not good.

Much in the same way IE lets you run with **** code. Doesn't mean it's a good thing.

[Hueij]

Originally posted by Mr Snuggles

"color" is not an attribute for HR in the HTML spec. I linked it already in this thread. That would make it non-valid.

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/graphics.html#h-15.3

Ah, didn't know that. Not that it matters though...

[FrostyBoy]

Siro, Mrs Snuggles, amazing fact: there are in fact people out there who are skilled in BOTH design and development!

****, they should make a documentary out of these incredible people!