How close is Canada to another NEP? If so, how soon til Alberta splits?

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Asher
This is not how constitutions, laws, and contracts work.

No big deal. We'll just pay a financial penalty.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by BeBro
Secession? Is Canada a failed state?

It is a failed state in progress.

[Ben Kenobi]

Negotiation yes, but you are ignoring the fact that the Federal government has a claim over all of Alberta that must first be settled before you can secede.

The same is not true for BC, or for any of the maritime provinces that joined at confederation. Their borders were not defined by Canada at any point in time.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Negotiation yes, but you are ignoring the fact that the Federal government has a claim over all of Alberta that must first be settled before you can secede.

The same is not true for BC, or for any of the maritime provinces that joined at confederation. Their borders were not defined by Canada at any point in time.

The Natural Resources Transfer Acts were passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1930 in order to give the Prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta) jurisdiction over their crown lands and natural resources, a right they were not given when they entered Confederation. The passage of these Acts rendered the Dominion Lands Act obsolete, since these same lands were no longer under federal jurisdiction.

The Natural Resources Transfer Acts were passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1930 in order to give the Prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta) jurisdiction over their crown lands and natural resources, a right they were not given when they entered Confederation. The passage of these Acts rendered the Dominion Lands Act obsolete, since these same lands were no longer under federal jurisdiction.

The Natural Resources Transfer Acts were passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1930 in order to give the Prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta) jurisdiction over their crown lands and natural resources, a right they were not given when they entered Confederation. The passage of these Acts rendered the Dominion Lands Act obsolete, since these same lands were no longer under federal jurisdiction.

The Natural Resources Transfer Acts were passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1930 in order to give the Prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta) jurisdiction over their crown lands and natural resources, a right they were not given when they entered Confederation. The passage of these Acts rendered the Dominion Lands Act obsolete, since these same lands were no longer under federal jurisdiction.

The Natural Resources Transfer Acts were passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1930 in order to give the Prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta) jurisdiction over their crown lands and natural resources, a right they were not given when they entered Confederation. The passage of these Acts rendered the Dominion Lands Act obsolete, since these same lands were no longer under federal jurisdiction.

The Natural Resources Transfer Acts were passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1930 in order to give the Prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta) jurisdiction over their crown lands and natural resources, a right they were not given when they entered Confederation. The passage of these Acts rendered the Dominion Lands Act obsolete, since these same lands were no longer under federal jurisdiction.

The Natural Resources Transfer Acts were passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1930 in order to give the Prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta) jurisdiction over their crown lands and natural resources, a right they were not given when they entered Confederation. The passage of these Acts rendered the Dominion Lands Act obsolete, since these same lands were no longer under federal jurisdiction.

The Natural Resources Transfer Acts were passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1930 in order to give the Prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta) jurisdiction over their crown lands and natural resources, a right they were not given when they entered Confederation. The passage of these Acts rendered the Dominion Lands Act obsolete, since these same lands were no longer under federal jurisdiction.

The Natural Resources Transfer Acts were passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1930 in order to give the Prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta) jurisdiction over their crown lands and natural resources, a right they were not given when they entered Confederation. The passage of these Acts rendered the Dominion Lands Act obsolete, since these same lands were no longer under federal jurisdiction.

The Natural Resources Transfer Acts were passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1930 in order to give the Prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta) jurisdiction over their crown lands and natural resources, a right they were not given when they entered Confederation. The passage of these Acts rendered the Dominion Lands Act obsolete, since these same lands were no longer under federal jurisdiction.

The Natural Resources Transfer Acts were passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1930 in order to give the Prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta) jurisdiction over their crown lands and natural resources, a right they were not given when they entered Confederation. The passage of these Acts rendered the Dominion Lands Act obsolete, since these same lands were no longer under federal jurisdiction.

The Natural Resources Transfer Acts were passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1930 in order to give the Prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta) jurisdiction over their crown lands and natural resources, a right they were not given when they entered Confederation. The passage of these Acts rendered the Dominion Lands Act obsolete, since these same lands were no longer under federal jurisdiction.

The Natural Resources Transfer Acts were passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1930 in order to give the Prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta) jurisdiction over their crown lands and natural resources, a right they were not given when they entered Confederation. The passage of these Acts rendered the Dominion Lands Act obsolete, since these same lands were no longer under federal jurisdiction.

The Natural Resources Transfer Acts were passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1930 in order to give the Prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta) jurisdiction over their crown lands and natural resources, a right they were not given when they entered Confederation. The passage of these Acts rendered the Dominion Lands Act obsolete, since these same lands were no longer under federal jurisdiction.

The Natural Resources Transfer Acts were passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1930 in order to give the Prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta) jurisdiction over their crown lands and natural resources, a right they were not given when they entered Confederation. The passage of these Acts rendered the Dominion Lands Act obsolete, since these same lands were no longer under federal jurisdiction.

The Natural Resources Transfer Acts were passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1930 in order to give the Prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta) jurisdiction over their crown lands and natural resources, a right they were not given when they entered Confederation. The passage of these Acts rendered the Dominion Lands Act obsolete, since these same lands were no longer under federal jurisdiction.

The Natural Resources Transfer Acts were passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1930 in order to give the Prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta) jurisdiction over their crown lands and natural resources, a right they were not given when they entered Confederation. The passage of these Acts rendered the Dominion Lands Act obsolete, since these same lands were no longer under federal jurisdiction.

The Natural Resources Transfer Acts were passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1930 in order to give the Prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta) jurisdiction over their crown lands and natural resources, a right they were not given when they entered Confederation. The passage of these Acts rendered the Dominion Lands Act obsolete, since these same lands were no longer under federal jurisdiction.

The Natural Resources Transfer Acts were passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1930 in order to give the Prairie provinces (Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta) jurisdiction over their crown lands and natural resources, a right they were not given when they entered Confederation. The passage of these Acts rendered the Dominion Lands Act obsolete, since these same lands were no longer under federal jurisdiction.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

Alberta has no right of unilateral secession. With Alberta, they would have to negotiate the rights of the borders and purchase the entirety of their land from the Federal government, before they would allow you to secede, assuming the majority of Canada also approved.

Even I knew that.

About time the Federal government started beating up on those racist rednecks. That's Liberal oil and they better stay the **** off of it.

[Arrian]

What happens to independant Alberta when the oil runs out?

-Arrian

[Wezil]

Ontario will support them.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Arrian
What happens to independant Alberta when the oil runs out?

-Arrian

I guess we'll find out in 400 years.

Edit: On a related note:

Energy-rich Alberta fuels up other sectors
The province targets technology with a $178-million strategy to end its overreliance on the fossil fuels

NORVAL SCOTT

June 12, 2008

CALGARY -- The Alberta government has launched a $178-million plan to help the province commercialize technological breakthroughs, hoping to lead the economy away from overreliance on the oil and gas sector.

With oil prices over $130 (U.S.) a barrel, a risk for oil-producing regions is the economic phenomenon of "Dutch disease," in which money floods into commodity-driven industries such as oil and natural gas at the expense of conventional sectors, such as agriculture or services.

That's already happening in Alberta, where the oil and gas sector is king but other industrial areas are relatively stagnant.

Canada, too, is seeing some impact; in part, the closing announced last week of General Motors's Oshawa, Ont., truck plant was attributed to the strength of the Canadian dollar against its U.S. counterpart, which is largely the result of oil prices.

Alberta's new plan, revealed yesterday, is intended to build on the technological expertise that Alberta has built up through development of its oil and gas resources; for example, the province is a leader in both oil sands crude extraction and horizontal gas drilling techniques. However, the new plan will also help prevent the economy from being too focused on energy, Premier Ed Stelmach said.

"The Alberta government is serious about a future that is diversified, in order to create long-term prosperity in the province," Mr. Stelmach said at an Edmonton press conference. "It's important to build on our strengths in the resource sector, but technology is the key that can reach into every area of our economy."

The strategy, under development since March, outlines nine actions to increase technological innovation, including a research and development tax break and the creation of a new $100-million enterprise corporation designed to attract venture capital to the province. The plan is expected to take between 10 and 15 years to be fully realized.

This is far from the first time that Alberta has attempted to diversify, and the results have often disappointed. In the 1980s and 1990s, a string of failed government ventures, intended to create jobs in a then-stagnant Albertan economy, culminated in the stunning failure of Novatel Communications Ltd., a disastrous attempt to create an Alberta cellular telephone champion that cost the province at least $566 million.

Gerry Angevine, a Calgary-based senior economist at the Fraser Institute, said diversification is a worthy goal so long as the government learns the lessons of the past and doesn't invest in companies with taxpayers' money.

"It's prudent for the government to look for ways to develop other lines of industrial activity; ultimately, Alberta will run out of oil and gas and there needs to be something to take its place," he said. "But it may be that it doesn't need to do much more than ensure the business environment is attractive and competitive with other jurisdictions so people can invest."

However, there are significant hurdles preventing diversification within Alberta, particularly if oil and gas prices stay at their current record levels, said Todd Hirsch, senior economist with ATB Financial in Calgary.

"Oil is the elephant in the room that'll keep growing and crowd out other industries," he said, pointing to the sky-high price of real estate in Calgary's downtown core that's made central office space available only to oil and gas companies. McNally Robinson, Canada's largest independent bookstore, is closing the largest bookshop in central Calgary in August because of high rent and labour expenses, the latest in the string of retail closings in the city's downtown core.

Mr. Hirsch added that diversification may not be as important now for Alberta as in the past, noting the province now has well-established conventional oil and gas sectors as well as the oil sands and unconventional gas plays, all of which operate fairly independently, creating a stronger economy than that which existed in the 1980s. "The energy sector is on stronger footing that it previously has been," he said.

[Ben Kenobi]

About time the Federal government started beating up on those racist rednecks. That's Liberal oil and they better stay the **** off of it.

The best part is that they need 7 of 10, so potato farming worshippers of ann of green gables could hold the reins of power.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Richelieu


BS. Eastern Canada sustained the West for over 100 years and now that you guys are hitting the Jackpot you're just too happy to forget about it and go your own way.

Ungrateful childrens.

Regardless. Canada is not a country: it's an illusion. This is just another example.

I find it hard to believe you'd take this seriously.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Wezil
Catching up on the thread...



You seemed to think that was far fetched when I brought it up in a thread a few months ago.

I think that was me.

Thread about Dion's carbon tax.

You thought it would have Albertans up in arms assuming it would be NEP II.

I thought it wouldn't be an issue in Ontario if it were a tax on production rather than a tax on consumption ergo not an NEP II.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by notyoueither


I think that was me.

Thread about Dion's carbon tax.

You thought it would have Albertans up in arms assuming it would be NEP II.

I thought it wouldn't be an issue in Ontario if it were a tax on production rather than a tax on consumption ergo not an NEP II.

Ah, yes. Apologies Asher.

I couldn't remember the context of the discussion.

[SlowwHand]

I thought y'all were one country? Stupid Americans.
I should have known it wasn't when you are so stridently deride State's Rights here.

[Wezil]

Who are you talking to?

[Bearet1]

NEP/Alberta and Separtists

Canada has a unique system of government which is a confederation very similar to the earliest forms of government in the United States of America. Please note that before the country was twenty years old, they dumped it in favor of the current federal state.

In Canada, the majority of power in government lies with the province and the Federal government deals with issues that are agreed to be of national or international importance.

The whole reason for Alberta and the other Western Provinces for balking at the National Energy Policy in the first place is that they felt (correctly) that the federal government had no business getting involved.

As someone who has lived on both sides of the border and in both the East and West of Canada, I have to say that in the end, I agree with Alberta. If Canada becomes a federated republic like the US, then the federal government would have all the power it needed to do anything with the oil or gas in the West or oil, gas and electricity in Newfoundland and Labrador. But that probably won't happen.