How close is Canada to another NEP? If so, how soon til Alberta splits?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Richelieu
I guess it's a sign of the times that greed has replaced nationalism as the reason of choice for wanting to separate.

It's about respecting the rights that have been afforded. In this situation the greed historically came from out east, which stepped on rights afforded to the provinces for the benefit of people out east to the expense of people out west.

Make no mistake, the only reason Quebec is still in Canada is greed. You guys thrive off the money Alberta sends you.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Richelieu
I guess it's a sign of the times that greed has replaced nationalism as the reason of choice for wanting to separate.

It's why we left. A central government overstepping its own boundaries and not respecting the rights of its citizens.

[DanS]

Some time ago, we had a good discussion about the Heritage Fund on Poly.

I don't know why the fund has to invest primarily overseas like the Norwegian fund. Alaska's fund invests primarily domestically, AFAIR. There are downsides as well as benefits to investing primarily overseas. And Canada's a lot larger than Norway.

[Ben Kenobi]

He hasn't lived there for 28 years, and when he did live there he didn't have a choice. You lose.

Which is why he hitched his train to the imperial oil train and came out west. What makes him different then all the Newfies who work out in the patch?

So he's lived in Calgary more than any other city in his life, he roots for the Calgary hockey team, he represents a riding in Calgary, his home is in Calgary, he went to university in Calgary, and yet he's not a Calgarian. Wow, Ben.

So if he grew up in Edmonton, rooted for Wayne and his boys, went to U of A, and represents a riding in Edmonton, he wouldn't be an albertan?

Mines and trees? WTF? That's small beans.

Oh, and lots of offshore oil.

As for your port, who cares. Pipelines, *****es!

So you are happy with just selling to the Americans? Why would you let them own your ass just as hard as the folks in Ottawa?

Tell me, Ben, how much does Alberta use your port right now? And would BC actually forbid Alberta's use of the port (which they'd pay for) had they not been in the same country? I don't think so.

Which one? I'm curious to see if you have any knowledge whatsoever.

Out of all of BC, Alberta, and Saskatchewan now...BC is the weakest link.

Of course, that's because you see Toronto as the centre of the universe.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Which is why he hitched his train to the imperial oil train and came out west. What makes him different then all the Newfies who work out in the patch?

Nothing at all, if the newfies who moved to Alberta consider Alberta their home.

My father moved out from Ontario to Alberta the exact same time as Harper. He is very much a Calgarian.

So if he grew up in Edmonton, rooted for Wayne and his boys, went to U of A, and represents a riding in Edmonton, he wouldn't be an albertan?

This makes no sense.

Oh, and lots of offshore oil.

No, compared to Alberta you've got virtually no oil.

So you are happy with just selling to the Americans? Why would you let them own your ass just as hard as the folks in Ottawa?

Why would they own our ass like Ottawa? I'm not saying we should join the USA. Again, WTF.

Which one? I'm curious to see if you have any knowledge whatsoever.

Any. I am asking you, what ports does Alberta use and how much do we use them?

I do know the vast majority of Alberta oil goes through pipelines to the US.

Of course, that's because you see Toronto as the centre of the universe.

Again, WTF? You're so out there, Ben, just stop posting.

[Ben Kenobi]

Nothing at all, if the newfies who moved to Alberta consider Alberta their home.

So if they stayed for 6 months they aren't carpetbaggers?

My father moved out from Ontario to Alberta the exact same time as Harper. He is very much a Calgarian.

No wonder you have an affinity to Ontario. That explains everything.

This makes no sense.

Ok. Then try this one. Suppose I live in BC, went to the U of Calgary got my degree there and became a flames fan, would that make me an Albertan?

No, compared to Alberta you've got virtually no oil.

It isn't tar sands, so when the US shuts you down, you'd be able to drill for it.

Why would they own our ass like Ottawa? I'm not saying we should join the USA. Again, WTF.

You said pipeline, meaning one south to the US is why you wouldn't care about having a port. States without access to the see do rather poorly.

Any. I am asking you, what ports does Alberta use and how much do we use them?

You said A port. Which one and where? I can't answer your question until you tell me which one you are asking for.

I do know the vast majority of Alberta oil goes through pipelines to the US.

Yes, but that doesn't mean you don't make use of our ports. I'm referring to one in particular, that you obviously know nothing about.

Again, WTF? You're so out there, Ben, just stop posting.

So are you if you believe that BC is not > Saskatchewan. I mean wtf?

[Richelieu]

Originally posted by Asher

It's about respecting the rights that have been afforded. In this situation the greed historically came from out east, which stepped on rights afforded to the provinces for the benefit of people out east to the expense of people out west.

Make no mistake, the only reason Quebec is still in Canada is greed. You guys thrive off the money Alberta sends you.

BS. Eastern Canada sustained the West for over 100 years and now that you guys are hitting the Jackpot you're just too happy to forget about it and go your own way.

Ungrateful childrens.

Regardless. Canada is not a country: it's an illusion. This is just another example.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Richelieu

BS. Eastern Canada sustained the West for over 100 years and now that you guys are hitting the Jackpot you're just too happy to forget about it and go your own way.

Ungrateful childrens.

Alberta received equalization how many years in its history? 1? 2?

How many years has Quebec received equalization payments?

Was your "BS" comment a warning about the content of your post?

[Ben Kenobi]

What do we owe Quebec Richelieu?

Building a railway out here?

You guys hemmed and hawed on that until we threatened to secede.

Unlike Alberta we never were federal territory.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
So if they stayed for 6 months they aren't carpetbaggers?

If they consider it their home, then that is what they are. I consider myself a Calgarian even though I'm temporarily living in Toronto, because that's where my heart is and that's where my home is.

No wonder you have an affinity to Ontario. That explains everything.

You are either exceptionally stupid, exceptionally unfunny, or an exceptionally bad troll. My feelings about Toronto and Ontario are well-known here.

Ok. Then try this one. Suppose I live in BC, went to the U of Calgary got my degree there and became a flames fan, would that make me an Albertan?

If you consider Alberta your home, it would.
If you consider BC your home, it wouldn't.

This isn't difficult like driving a mail truck...

It isn't tar sands, so when the US shuts you down, you'd be able to drill for it.

Nice try.

You said pipeline, meaning one south to the US is why you wouldn't care about having a port. States without access to the see do rather poorly.

Before you continue, I suggest you should look up a map of where the oil pipelines go.

You said A port. Which one and where? I can't answer your question until you tell me which one you are asking for.

Knock it off. YOU said BC's asset is

Large deepwater port.

Don't pretend like I'm the one who brought it up. I'm asking YOU to defend your claim that BC's deep-water port is:
(1) Absolutely essential to Alberta's success
(2) Unusable to Alberta if Alberta becomes its own country

So are you if you believe that BC is not > Saskatchewan. I mean wtf?

You're apparently unaware of Saskatchewan's untapped energy resources. Why am I not surprised.

They dwarf BC's.

[Asher]

So are you if you believe that BC is not > Saskatchewan. I mean wtf?

Just so Ben knows.

GDP/capita:

Alberta: $66,644
Saskatchewan: $43,330
BC: $39,658

[Ben Kenobi]

If they consider it their home, then that is what they are. I consider myself a Calgarian even though I'm temporarily living in Toronto, because that's where my heart is and that's where my home is.

Ok, then I'm an Albertan today. Cool.

You are either exceptionally stupid, exceptionally unfunny, or an exceptionally bad troll. My feelings about Toronto and Ontario are well-known here.

The apple don't fall far from the tree. Your father was a carpetbagger and you've chosen the same path.

Before you continue, I suggest you should look up a map of where the oil pipelines go.

Hmm interesting. The shortest route south crosses the Saskatchewan border before it goes to the US. Can you say tolls? I thought so.

To ship westward would have to go through us, so can you say tolls again? Yes, I thought so. Why shouldn't we be able to milk the profits out of Alberta?

Knock it off. YOU said BC's asset is

Large deepwater port.

So which port am I talking about here Asher? There's only really one.

(1) Absolutely essential to Alberta's success
(2) Unusable to Alberta if Alberta becomes its own country

Without tolls, yes it would be unusable by Alberta, and believe me we would charge tolls. I was curious if you knew which port I was talking about. Obviously you don't because you haven't mentioned it.

So what port is this Asher? How can you possibly know the value of the ports when you don't even know where they are or what they are called?

You're apparently unaware of Saskatchewan's untapped energy resources. Why am I not surprised.

I'm also aware of Saskatchewan's population problems.

Alberta: $66,644
Saskatchewan: $43,330
BC: $39,658

Per capita? That means that our total economy is much, much larger then Saskatchewans. Union between BC and Alberta would be between two economies of roughly equal size.

[Richelieu]

You guys sound like Texans.

[Ben Kenobi]

Alberta should just merge with us. Legally you have no right to separation at all. We'd pay Canada for you and the deal would be done.

There's only 7 provinces that can legally separate, BC, Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, New Brunswick and PEI. All the prairie provinces are the legal creations of the federal government.

[snoopy369]

I think it's a very much more complex issue than you state, Asher (and also more complex than the easterners would state, of course). The question must boil down to, to what extent does the Nation own the natural resources, as opposed to the province; and I don't mean in the constitution, but ... I don't want to say 'morally', exactly, but in terms of what is right for everyone.

Why, for example, does Alberta as a province have a right to benefit from the oil under it, as opposed to Canada? (As opposed to, say, no governmental or societal revenue at all, or only city level, etc.) The answer is, of course, that there should be some benefit at all levels, but the specifics of how much are what is to be debated.

Of course, in some sense Alberta could simply walk away - as you suggest - but there are three factors there: first, to what degree Alberta presently benefits from the Union (from being part of a larger nation, national identity, international respect, trade, immigration, etc.); second, to what degree Alberta has already benefited from the Union (the initial development and exploration of Alberta was largely due to the East, I would presume), and thus to what degree does Alberta 'owe' the nation; and third, to what degre Alberta might in the future benefit, say if oil suddenly became cheap, or their oil ran out, or some other resource which is only in Quebec or PEI or such suddenly became far more valuable.

It is not simply greed, and it is not as simple of an equation as you would imply, Asher...