Don't Ask, Don't Tell (and its depiction last night in Grey's Anatomy)

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben - the point is that the military ought to provide benefits to homosexual partners. There's no logical reason to allow people who cannot perform the job (ie, disabled) to do so, however. If you want to argue that disabled people SHOULD be allowed to be in the military, please feel free to argue that...

There are non-combat positions available. Bottom line is that it is up to the military to decide who is and who is not qualified to serve. All you folks are arguing that they should be allowed to discriminate against some people but not others.

[snoopy369]

And Apocalypse made it clear above that people with hearing disabilities CAN stay in the military...

You're just making a straw man here - okay, so let's allow disabled people into the military if they can serve. Sounds good. Now, what's the problem with gays in the military?

Bottom line is we (pretty much everyone here) feel that the military ought to change their policy. I don't think anyone is arguing that they MUST do so, since they're the military and can do basically whatever they want, but they SHOULD, because it's the right thing to do.

So, Ben, if we elect you President in 2008, would you allow gays into the military? Assume that the generals are all kiss-asses and will tell you whatever you want to think (ie, they don't have a position on this).

[Ben Kenobi]

If their hearing meets the threshold. Mine does not.

I would be class 3D based on my audiogram. That's what I was trying to tell you about their decibel limits.

So, Ben, if we elect you President in 2008, would you allow gays into the military? Assume that the generals are all kiss-asses and will tell you whatever you want to think (ie, they don't have a position on this).

No, I think it would cause more problems then it's worth. Benefit +10 percent at most recruitment. At worst, you could end up losing a significant portion of your recruits.

[Asher]

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't pass their mental competency tests, quite honestly.

They would ask you a simple question like "Where were you born" and you'd go off on them asking them why they hate Cheddar.

[Ben Kenobi]

c. Acceptable audiometric hearing levels (both ears) are:

(1) Pure tone at 500, 1000, and 2000 cycles per second of not more than 30 decibels (dB) on the average (each ear), with no individual level greater than 35dB at these frequencies.

(2) Pure tone level not more than 45 dB at 3000 cycles per second each ear, and 55 dB at 4000 cycles per second each ear.

I can't even hear 120 decibels at 2000 Hz frequency.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The military should be allowed to prevent black people in the military. They are allowed to discriminate against others!

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
If their hearing meets the threshold. Mine does not.

I would be class 3D based on my audiogram. That's what I was trying to tell you about their decibel limits.



No, I think it would cause more problems then it's worth. Benefit +10 percent at most recruitment. At worst, you could end up losing a significant portion of your recruits.

Why would you lose most of your recruits? That's what they said when they started letting Blacks into the military also...

[Apocalypse]

Honestly, you could wear a hearing aid in the hearing test room and no one would notice. Also, there are enough people with hearing aids already in the army that you wouldn't be out of place.

[Ben Kenobi]

Honestly, you could wear a hearing aid in the hearing test room and no one would notice. Also, there are enough people with hearing aids already in the army that you wouldn't be out of place.

Apoc, that is with a hearing aid.

[Apocalypse]

Well then, you could always do what many other people do and just watch others click the little hand clicker.

[Ben Kenobi]

Actually, they had black soldiers. It was just segregated prior.

I'm sure you would have supported a segregated service since you support Jim Crow, Imran.

I think the current policy is far superior to the segregated service, and I don't think it should be the business of the military to inquire into these personal details.

That being said, it works the other way too.

[Ben Kenobi]

Well then, you could always do what many other people do and just watch others click the little hand clicker.

You mean they don't make you wear special glasses?

My audiologists do that for me, so I can't cheat and read their lips when they do the word recognition.

[Apocalypse]

No, there is a curtain, but it is a small curtain.

The clicks are usually louder than the beeps, especially if you don't actually have the headset on correctly.

I've never done this since I do not need to, but I know people who have.

[snoopy369]

I thought they already have a service just for the homosexuals?? [/asher]

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Actually, they had black soldiers. It was just segregated prior.

I'm sure you would have supported a segregated service since you support Jim Crow, Imran.

WTF?

I think the current policy is far superior to the segregated service, and I don't think it should be the business of the military to inquire into these personal details.

That being said, it works the other way too.

Yes, I don't think it should be in the business of the military to inquire into those personal details... the other way? You mean if you look black you "told"?