Don't Ask, Don't Tell (and its depiction last night in Grey's Anatomy)

[Apocalypse]

An investigation is not actually required.

[Patroklos]

An investigation is not actually required.

Yes, an investigation is always required, even if it is simple admission. This is pretty much true of anything, not just DADT cases.

Again -- how pathetic is it that when someone accuses another person of being gay in the military,

I don't think I have ever heard of a case of someone being discharged though DADT from an accusation. Every one I know of was through admission or actually being caught in a sexual act. I am sure they are out there and easily googled, but I have never run into one/heard of one personally.

[Apocalypse]

No, DADT allows for commander discretion.

[Patroklos]

No, DADT allows for commander discretion.

Not all the time. A commander can unilaterally declare an accusation as meritless, but not an admission.

So let me rephrase, if you intend to pursue a DADT discharge then there is always an investigation. This is the case with every forced discharge.

[Apocalypse]

Commanders can dismiss it if they believe the person is just saying to get out. Or they can dismiss it if they decide to frame it as the person just saying it to get out.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Yes, an investigation is always required, even if it is simple admission. This is pretty much true of anything, not just DADT cases.



I don't think I have ever heard of a case of someone being discharged though DADT from an accusation. Every one I know of was through admission or actually being caught in a sexual act. I am sure they are out there and easily googled, but I have never run into one/heard of one personally.

Can you please describe how those caught in the act were caught.

[Verto]

Originally posted by snoopy369
I guess because I think DADT is a step in the right direction - it's better than no service, right? You can't expect psycho religious right folks to suddenly go from "eww gays are evil let's stone them" to "Let's give them guns and bathe with them" in one step Hence, DADT was not a bad thing, it was a step that allowed gays to serve, if not openly; then at some (hopefully soon) point, we get over this whole thing and drop DADT.

It just sounds to me when people complain about DADT that they'd rather go back to the pre-DADT times... which seems weird.

Bull****. If someone is a bigot, whether it be against homosexuals, or ethnicity or religion, what have you, the burden should be on THEM to deal with it, not for the rest of the military to accommodate them.

EDIT: Oh, and I don't think I've mentioned what a dumbass show Gray's Anatomy is.

[Apocalypse]

Bigots took greater control over the Army and Air Force largely because of Clinton. He reduced the military. This caused harder choices between two candidates for promotion. Especially with the Air Force, the evangelical one won out.

With Bush, many people are getting out. This lets anyone get promoted, including non-evangelicals who are more gay-friendly.

[Monk]

Originally posted by Asher
By being forbidden to have sex with other men, you cannot be gay.

You can make the argument that you can be gay and not have sex with men, but I don't buy it -- if that is a gay man, it's an unhealthy gay man. No, to be gay involves sexual interaction

Hey Asher,

Your overall point is fair, but this part just doesn't make any sense. It basically says that no healthy person who is a virgin could also be gay (or heterosexual, for that matter) and surely that's an absurd notion.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Monk


Hey Asher,

Your overall point is fair, but this part just doesn't make any sense. It basically says that no healthy person who is a virgin could also be gay (or heterosexual, for that matter) and surely that's an absurd notion.

Well, it's healthy to be a virgin up until a certain point -- I'd say past age 20 and being a virgin is unhealthy. Psychologically.

[Apocalypse]

One of my coworkers is a 27 year old virgin and he'll be almost 29 when we get back from Iraq.

[Asher]

Yes, this is not healthy.

[Apocalypse]

Really though, you can pretty much be gay in the military (including sex) just not be open. Guys hang out in each others' rooms all the time and really you have no idea if they are having sex or just playing guitar hero.

Like I said in my first post in the thread, there is an inequity, but not nearly as big as you make it out to be.

[Patroklos]

Can you please describe how those caught in the act were caught.

Engineering watches are normally the ones who find people getting it on, whatever the gender makeup of the couples. There is a sounding and security watch 24 hours a day that inspects all the rarely trafficed or hard to reach places to make sure things like flooding and whatnot aren't happening. These also tend to be the places people do things they are not supposed to for ths same reason, whether it be sex or drugs or just catching a nap.

I would routinely catch people in the act (straight) in the helo control tower. Even though they would get a warning over the 1MC that flight quarters had been set, rarely could they get their cloths back on before I got there.

I used to catch them on the open deck sometimes as well. At night with darken ship set we don't let anyone topside because if they fell overboard 1.) we probably wouldn't even know 2.) its pitch black, its just easier to fall overboard and 3.) recoveries are harder at night. In any case, since nobody is supposed to be up there it is an good place to get some, at least it seems that way to Seaman Smuckatelle because he doesn't know the bridge looksouts have NVGs.

Bigots took greater control over the Army and Air Force largely because of Clinton. He reduced the military. This caused harder choices between two candidates for promotion. Especially with the Air Force, the evangelical one won out.

I want you to provide even a scrap of evidence for this. Oerdin repeats this without backing it up as well. Specifically, given the anonymous character of all promotion boards (and the simple scale for that matter), I want you to explain how this is even possible.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Engineering watches are normally the ones who find people getting it on, whatever the gender makeup of the couples. There is a sounding and security watch 24 hours a day that inspects all the rarely trafficed or hard to reach places to make sure things like flooding and whatnot aren't happening. These also tend to be the places people do things they are not supposed to for ths same reason, whether it be sex or drugs or just catching a nap.

I would routinely catch people in the act (straight) in the helo control tower. Even though they would get a warning over the 1MC that flight quarters had been set, rarely could they get their cloths back on before I got there.

I used to catch them on the open deck sometimes as well. At night with darken ship set we don't let anyone topside because if they fell overboard 1.) we probably wouldn't even know 2.) its pitch black, its just easier to fall overboard and 3.) recoveries are harder at night. In any case, since nobody is supposed to be up there it is an good place to get some, at least it seems that way to Seaman Smuckatelle because he doesn't know the bridge looksouts have NVGs.



I want you to provide even a scrap of evidence for this. Oerdin repeats this without backing it up as well. Specifically, given the anonymous character of all promotion boards (and the simple scale for that matter), I want you to explain how this is even possible.

Are you on a carrier? We were allowed to go on deck at night. There is usually plenty of light to see by if you just stand still and let your eyes adjust.

ACK!