This is the end? (Hillary)

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Please, God, let it be so. :desire:

(edit - that was at the OP, not Zkrib's apocalyptic prediction)

I'll root for Zkrib's prediction.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


It makes perfect sense; I'm pretty sure both Imran and I have always been in this category.

So you say, but I've never heard you justify it and I'm curious. Given that Obama would do mostly the same things as Clinton, and given that McCain would do very different things on both the domestic and foreign fronts, why would you consider McCain the logical 2nd choice after Clinton?

[Patroklos]

Yeah, those folks are just plain nuts, especially given that Obama and Hillary are proposing very similar policies.

You assume that significant portions of the voting support is based on policies instead of one being a woman and one being black.

You shouldn't do that.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Agreed.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
So you say, but I've never heard you justify it and I'm curious. Given that Obama would do mostly the same things as Clinton, and given that McCain would do very different things on both the domestic and foreign fronts, why would you consider McCain the logical 2nd choice after Clinton?

I really really dislike and distrust the "a new kind of politics" image Obama is [trying [and generally succeeding]] to project. I don't like his lack of experience. Plus, I actually don't agree with too many of Hillary's policies, but don't particularly want a Republican in the White House in 2009.

If it were Romney or (oh, god) Huckabee on the Republican side, there'd be no contest, but McCain is different enough from the rest of the party that my dislike of Obama outweighs my dislike of McCain.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Patroklos
You assume that significant portions of the voting support is based on policies instead of one being a woman and one being black.
You shouldn't do that.

Oh... SOOOOOOOO true.

The democrats face a difficult problem. If Hillary losses, many women will feel the Democratic party had betrayed them. If Obama were to lose, many black and young people will feel the party betrayed them. Either way, a significant portion of the mainline democratic party is going to be really pissed off.

Add on top of that the bigots who wouldn't vote in million years for a woman or a black, and the democrats could be in serious trouble.

As Kuci said...

If it were Romney or (oh, god) Huckabee on the Republican side, there'd be no contest, but McCain is different enough from the rest of the party.

Yes, the republicans got lucky and aren't trying to run somebody like Romney or Huckabee. McCain is close enough to the center that many democrats may find it easy to vote for him. What should have been an easy slaughter of the Repubs after 8 years of the moron in the White House has now turned into a horse race that the Democrats could lose.

Politics is great stuff

[Theben]

I wonder what the impact of McCain will be. If he wins, will the Repubs end their pandering to their extremist wing and imbace a more moderate stance? If he loses, will it be interpreted as a rejection of a moderate republican base and shift back to the extreme?

[-Jrabbit]

So, summing up your preferences, Kuci:

1. Clinton, because she's not a Republican
2. McCain, because he's not a Bush Republican
3. Obama, because you don't trust him

[Kuciwalker]

Close enough.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


I really really dislike and distrust the "a new kind of politics" image Obama is [trying [and generally succeeding]] to project. I don't like his lack of experience. Plus, I actually don't agree with too many of Hillary's policies, but don't particularly want a Republican in the White House in 2009.

If it were Romney or (oh, god) Huckabee on the Republican side, there'd be no contest, but McCain is different enough from the rest of the party that my dislike of Obama outweighs my dislike of McCain.

Ok, I can see that, even if I strongly disagree.

The only problem is that a vote for McCain isn't a vote for McCain -- it's a vote for the GOP, the same GOP that's been screwing up the country for the last eight years. McCain, if he wins, is going to owe that win to the GOP stalwarts -- including the 25-30% of the country who, heads firmly up their asses, actually approve of the job Bush is doing. The fundies, the Permanent War chickenhawks, the xenophobes and the zero-taxers are all going to demand their due, and McCain -- after a closely-fought election, and after a history of defying his party to the point of flirting with bolting -- is not going to have any kind of mandate or a lot of friends to run interference. If you want an object lesson on what happens when a party maverick gets elected and the party demands its due, read up on the Carter administration (or Bush I, for that matter). It ain't pretty.

[rah]

The fact that the repugs have any chance at all is the biggest surprise of this election year. If the Dems squander this one, they may just have to disband and start a new party.

[Kuciwalker]

The only problem is that a vote for McCain isn't a vote for McCain -- it's a vote for the GOP, the same GOP that's been screwing up the country for the last eight years.

I agree, which is why my choice is still heavily dependent on how the campaigns go after the primaries are over.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by rah
The fact that the repugs have any chance at all is the biggest surprise of this election year. If the Dems squander this one, they may just have to disband and start a new party.

Christ on a crutch, people, this election has been in the bag for the GOP for months and months now.

Honestly, does anyone here feel that America will elect a black or female President right now? Anyone? Especially after the beating those two have been giving one another? Add in "maverick" McCain, and all the GOP has to do is run out the clock. The only way they don't win again is if McCain dies before November. And given that I predicted exactly that in the Poly Death Pool, you can pretty much guarantee that **** isn't gonna happen either.

[rah]

While being optimistic, I wouldn't go as far as to say in the bag. As much as the dems are kicking each other, we're still dealing with one of the most incompetent administrations this country has ever seen and there has to be some backlash.

[Guynemer]

You'd have thought that back in 2004, too, when the Dems ran an honest-to-goodness war hero of their own. We know how that turned out.