And some of you were worried about the new LONDON mayor...

[Ben Kenobi]

It was meant to be funny.

You were hitting me with why I would personally want to go to Rome.

[Spiffor]

oh ok

[Theben]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Hasn't DF been quasi-fascist for a long time now?

I guess only rich and/or socially acceptable people are allowed to have civil liberties.

[Kuciwalker]

[David Floyd]

No, Theben, the distinction is that civil liberties don't extend to giving people the right to pickpocket tourists, and generally steal their way through life.

Now, I certainly am in favor of allowing individuals to use guns to defend against muggers and pickpockets, but I'm also in favor of the police cracking down on said muggers and pickpockets - you know, criminals?

[Theben]

I think so. It's okay for individuals to defend themselves from other individuals, but sometimes necessary for an extreme govt campaign to remove groups of people b/c of some individuals.

Yes, yes, it's all making sense now.

[David Floyd]

Well, we don't have gypsies in the US, but from what almost everyone on here is saying, the vast, vast, vast majority of gypsies are basically thieves. That doesn't mean the police should arrest and deport EVERYONE, but it does mean that a crackdown on the entire group so that they can sort out the criminals (majority) from the innocent (vast minority) is in order.

If they are wrong, fine. I'm just going by what people who have experience with gypsies are saying.

[Theben]

It's a very common opinion in Europe. And there are gypsies in America, they just don't broadcast it.

Actually I have had some experience in Rome with Gypsies, and yeah they were petty thieves. If there were others, I didn't see them- more due to the 'thief' ones wearing stereotypical clothing than anything. But on the whole I don't see Europe giving gypsies many other options. They've been social pariahs for a long time. Nor would I trust a neo-fascists 'solution' to the problem, and as a 'libertarian' I would think you wouldn't either. They don't have a good track record on liberties.

[David Floyd]

Well, I'm glad we agree that gypsies are basically the bad guys here. What I don't understand is why you think it is fascistic to prosecute and/or deport criminals.

As for gypsies being "social pariahs" in Europe, and as such have no options, looks at the Jews! You can't say gypsies are persecuted more than Jews have been in the past, yet by and large Jews aren't regarded as petty thieves, and for that matter are not, by and large, petty thieves.

[Wezil]

Looks like a couple posters here confuse libertarianism with anarchy.

[Theben]

It's a fine line.

Originally posted by David Floyd
Well, I'm glad we agree that gypsies are basically the bad guys here. What I don't understand is why you think it is fascistic to prosecute and/or deport criminals.

Some gypsies are. Maybe even most. But not all. And

There are 85 abusive nomad camps to destroy.

doesn't mean he wants to track down and expel the criminals, he wants to destroy the homes of ALL of them and force them to leave. I find it difficult for you to condone that attitude.

As for gypsies being "social pariahs" in Europe, and as such have no options, looks at the Jews! You can't say gypsies are persecuted more than Jews have been in the past, yet by and large Jews aren't regarded as petty thieves, and for that matter are not, by and large, petty thieves.

And how long did that take? And how recently did that attitude change from a majority opion to a minority one? How much still exists? Not a good example to back your arguments.

[Ben Kenobi]

Have you seen the WAR website, Ben? You might like it there.

No clue. Never heard of it.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Well, we don't have gypsies in the US, but from what almost everyone on here is saying, the vast, vast, vast majority of gypsies are basically thieves.

"Almost everyone" being C0ckney and who exactly?

There's a big racism in Europe against Gypsies. If you believe the European prejudices toward Gypsies, you'll have a picture about as accurate as if you trusted 19th century European prejudices toward the Jews*.

Both groups have actually experienced the same catastrophe. It took the Shoah for antisemitism to finally become politically incorrect in Europe (or more accurately, most of it), thanks to an intense and coordinated effort done by the remaining Jews. Gypsies kept their trauma much more to themselves, and thus haven't reverted their image when the European public opinion and elites felt most guilty.

If you want to have any accurate idea about Gypsies, I'd suggest you read books on the topic or something. I don't deem this post to be deserving of the respect you gave it (except for the fact, obviously, that this post matched your bigoted prejudices and gave them a legitimacy because it was written by a European)


*Edit: both cases are similar. A largely different culture that is spread in most of Europe among indigenous cultures, and is largely endogamous. The exchanges with the indigenous populations are largely economic. These two populations were the "foreigners right here", who cristallized more fantasies than actual foreigners living in another country.

That's not to say the prejudices were completely false. The Jew's lifestyle (largely forced by the Christian local authorities) was urban, and focused largely on urban activities such as trade and finance - the tales of their relationship to money was thus not entirely disconnected from reality, it was a fantasization of it.

Same with Gypsies. With the being nomads, it was pretty easy to blame any unsolved problem on them... Actually, one could say the same of any non-conformist group that lived in medieval Europe (witches, but even some stripes of monks)

[C0ckney]

Originally posted by Spiffor
If you want to have any accurate idea about Gypsies, I'd suggest you read books on the topic or something. I don't deem this post to be deserving of the respect you gave it (except for the fact, obviously, that this post matched your bigoted prejudices and gave them a legitimacy because it was written by a European)

you have admitted that you have little to no personal experience of gypsies, and yet you call me a bigot when i describe my own experiences with the same. just to be clear, these things happened in real life.

i can tell some stories if you like...but you have read a book on the subject and can decide for yourself.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by C0ckney
you have admitted that you have little to no personal experience of gypsies, and yet you call me a bigot when i describe my own experiences with the same. just to be clear, these things happened in real life.

There's a bit of difference between you and DF:

You = became hostile through your own experience. I don't agree with your statement (far from it), but at least you have personal reasons to believe it's true.

DF = No experience nor knowledge about Gypsies. Yet takes the contents of your post as granted as soon as he reads it. That's because he has bigoted prejudices, and your post gave credit to those.