chegitz guevara For Congress

[Elok]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
From the Hellen Keller Reference Archive

The Spirit of Lenin 1929
No revolution was ever a sudden outbreak of lawlessness and wreckage incited by an unholy brood of cranks, anarchists and pedagogues.

This is just embarrassing to read. Ouch!

The Russian Revolution did not originate with Lenin. It had hovered for centuries in the dreams of Russian mystics and patriots, but when the body of Lenin was laid in simple state in the Kremlin, all Russia trembled and wept.

Yes, I imagine the startsi were eager for a movement to crack down and oppress their own religion not only in Russia, but in bordering countries hundreds of miles to the west as well. As St. Seraphim said, "acquire the spirit of violent upheaval, and a thousand martyrs will be created through you." I'm not sure if they wept for Lenin the moment he was laid to rest, except perhaps for the ones who knew Stalin personally and had some idea what was coming.

The mouths of hungry enemies fed on new hopes, but the spirit of Lenin descended upon the weeping multitude as with cloven tongues of fire, and they spoke one to another and were not afraid. "Let us not follow him with cowering hearts," they said, "let us rather gird ourselves for the task he has left us. Where our dull eyes see only ruin, his clearer sight discovers the road by which we shall gain our liberty. Revolution he sees, yea, and even disintegration which symbolizes disorder is in truth the working of God's undeviating order; and the manner of our government shall be no less wonderful than the manner of our deliverance. If we are steadfast, the world will be quickened to courage by our deeds."

Men vanish from earth leaving behind them the furrows they have ploughed. I see the furrow Lenin left sown with the unshatterable seed of a new life for mankind, and cast deep below the rolling tides of storm and lightning, mighty crops for the ages to reap.

I'm strongly tempted to use the adjective "short-sighted" here, bad taste aside. I don't see why Keller should be remembered for this, any more than we remember Isaac Newton for his belief in alchemy or Arthur Conan Doyle for his end-of-life "Spiritualist" phase.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I'm sure that alchemists (assuming there are any left) do remember Newton for his belief in alchemy and I know many spiritualists trot Doyle out on a regular basis. How is this different?

[Elok]

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi
I'm sure that alchemists (assuming there are any left) do remember Newton for his belief in alchemy and I know many spiritualists trot Doyle out on a regular basis. How is this different?

Probably it isn't, but you'll notice that other people remember Doyle as the creator of Sherlock Holmes and Isaac Newton as the father of physics. We don't generally think of all the famous people who endorsed eugenics either, or phrenology--and there were tons of both.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by snoopy369
And didn't our French friend run for something?

I ran for city and district councilman.

However, being a commie in a bourgeois town isn't an effective way to get elected

[Ben Kenobi]

I wonder if Ben's read her writings on her desire to have a sexual relationship and being "protected" from having sex against her will.

Gee. Che. You'd be surprised. It works both ways. Keller was different because she was noticed. Most aren't.

As a result people like you tend to hold her up as a model, or as in your case, justification for your views. Yes, Keller agreed with you here, so you recruit her for your cause.

That is what makes me sick here.

You don't know the half of what you speak of Che, most times the only experience that people have with deaf folks is through helen keller. Yes, people tried to put Keller in that mould.

I've got a newsflash for you Che, they still do, even today. Deaf people are expected to fit the same mould as Helen Keller. You think my experience has been so different from hers?

[Elok]

Oh, yeah? Well, I'm more tolerant and enlightened than either of you, so THERE!

[Ben Kenobi]

Che hasn't been in GOVERNMENT* in the past, so how has he had a chance to support disabled people?

Think about that for a minute and get back to me.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's disappointing that you are choosing to categorize someone based solely on their physical limitations and not their character.

I'm not the one who decided to use Helen Keller in my campaign solely because of her high profile due to her disability.

After all, this is evidence that she chose not to allow her disabilities to define her, why do you then have the right to decide otherwise?

I have about 14 different answers for you.

1. I'm not the one defining her by her disability.

2. Like it or not, she means something to people who have a similar disability, because she overcame her disability and had considerable influence on society.

3. People who intend to use her image in a campaign (without prior consent of her estate, etc) ought to expect criticism.

[asleepathewheel]

Oddly, when I just went to her wikipedia page, it apparently had just been vandalized:

she became famouse for her obesity rate at 350 pounds. she won the biggest persons rewward in 1935

Very nice

[chequita guevara]

Too bad, Ben. You don't own her. She's dead. When she was alive, she lent her name and reputation to the socialist movement. She was a revolutionary. Deal with it. You don't get to expunge her socialism just because you don't agree with it. Socialists have every BIT as much right to claim her as the Deaf and Blind communities do.

In fact, we have more. She was deaf and blind by accident. She was a socialist by choice!

[Ben Kenobi]

Since you want to know, Ben, a good deal of what I do is ensuring that websites are accessible to people with disabilities.

Thank you. Now the context of your decision makes more sense why you would choose her over the others who were both more qualified and more involved in the socialist party.

The second, and I think the real issue, is that Ben doesn't like to think about the fact that one of his icons was a real socialist.

Hmm? I wasn't concerned about that. Had you started a thread, saying Helen Keller was a socialist, it would have been fun to have you trying to troll me. My concern was over your decision to use her in your campaign.

I'm surprised you think I was unaware of her bent. Think about this for a moment. I was a deaf kid in a hearing school. When you have your teachers and therapists, who is the first person they teach you about when they are looking for a moral example? Helen Keller.

I had to read what you posted right there, and it was considered expected for us to be clones of her so to speak. To act in the same way and to think like her and come to the same conclusions.

Maybe my experience was atypical. I don't believe it was. I found that out as I started to deviate from the Helen Keller script, that the organisations that were set up for me are a one-way shot. You play ball or you make it on your own.

She wasn't just a socialist, but she was an exceedingly prominent member of my party, the Socialist Party.

She never lead the party, nor was she a nominee for president like the fellow I mentioned earlier. Hence my surprise at you selecting her over other more prominent socialist members.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Elok
This is just embarrassing to read. Ouch!

I didn't say it was good, but this was written twenty years after she had joined the Socialist Party. Heck, she was in the party longer at this point than I've been an active socialist.

It should illustrate to Ben that this wasn't just some passing phase she went through. The FBI file on her has her keeping contact with the socialist and communist movement up through the last decades of her life. No matter how he tries, Ben can't wish this away.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
She never lead the party, nor was she a nominee for president like the fellow I mentioned earlier. Hence my surprise at you selecting her over other more prominent socialist members.

Debs was never a leader in the party, other than by moral persuasion. Comrade Keller is, simply, the single most famous member of our party. I'm not going to apologize to you for using someone who was one of our speakers and one of our organizers. She chose to be a socialist. She chose to use her celebrity to advance the cause. Your personal experiences don't give you a greater claim to her than the political organization she helped build.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I've got a newsflash for you Che, they still do, even today. Deaf people are expected to fit the same mould as Helen Keller. You think my experience has been so different from hers?

So every deaf person is supposed to be exactly like Keller? Well, so much for individual choice.

I'm not the one who decided to use Helen Keller in my campaign solely because of her high profile due to her disability.

Neither is che. He is using her because she was a very strong socialist.

1. I'm not the one defining her by her disability.

Yes, you are.

2. Like it or not, she means something to people who have a similar disability, because she overcame her disability and had considerable influence on society.

Which is nice, but she also had other ideals and meant something to people who believe in socialist ideals too.

3. People who intend to use her image in a campaign (without prior consent of her estate, etc) ought to expect criticism.

Intelligent criticism; not your ravings.

She never lead the party, nor was she a nominee for president like the fellow I mentioned earlier.

So a Democrat with Ted Kennedy up on his site would be something weird?

[Ben Kenobi]

Too bad, Ben. You don't own her. She's dead. When she was alive, she lent her name and reputation to the socialist movement. She was a revolutionary. Deal with it. You don't get to expunge her socialism just because you don't agree with it.

My God.

You honestly think I'd rather expunge it? It's history, all these are facts.

Maybe you need to reread what she wrote I don't know.

Keller didn't like the restraints that were put on her by well meaning people. Many of the same restraints and attitudes that she talks about are still prevalent today.

The difference?

This time it's the socialists who are the ones who mould people into being the way they expect us to be.

Socialists have every BIT as much right to claim her as the Deaf and Blind communities do.

Then why are you surrpised when someone who is deaf chooses to blast you for your selection? No, she isn't ours. Neither is she yours, and it's best if you treat her as a whole person and not just a socialist.

In fact, we have more. She was deaf and blind by accident.

None of us choose our fate, Che.