Why are you not a Christian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Asher




I can't believe you contest the concept of Christianity tending to make followers against gay marriage, and you counter it by saying people who are anti-gay become Christian.

The chicken or the egg...

I think my point is that anti gay mentality goes beyond religion. A lot of times people that are secular still think like Christians in a society with a Christian heritage.

[Asher]

There are plenty of reasons to be anti-gay. Religion is one of many. It happens to be the main reason in the US and Canada, as has shown by polls, statistics, and common sense.

[BeBMan]

Just become a religous person and fight the system from inside.

[Alinestra Covelia]

My high school (an Anglican church establishment in the UK) had compulsory chapel services every Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday.

News flash: This is not an effective way to make people like the religion featured in the compulsory services.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Asher
There are plenty of reasons to be anti-gay. Religion is one of many. It happens to be the main reason in the US and Canada, as has shown by polls, statistics, and common sense.

They would still be anti-gay even if they weren't religious.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Asher
So, given 4 very convincing pointers here, what do you counter that with? The fact that there are some religious people who do support gay marriage?

I already told you. Since anti-gay people are attracted to religions that are anti-gay your statistics mean nothing. Period.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kidicious



They would still be anti-gay even if they weren't religious.

Prove that. That's ridiculous.

Some may, some may not. Your assertion that all people who are anti-gay are inherently anti-gay regardless of religion is not supported and contrary to most evidence.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Asher

Prove that. That's ridiculous.

Some may, some may not. Your assertion that all people who are anti-gay are inherently anti-gay regardless of religion is not supported and contrary to most evidence.

I didn't say they were inherently anti-gay.

People are expected to be straight in our society. That's not just a religious thing, it's societal. It naturally follows that a certain type of person will be anti-gay because of this whether or not they join a religion or not.

Also, you haven't proven anything with your statistics.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kidicious
I didn't say they were inherently anti-gay.

People are expected to be straight in our society. That's not just a religious thing, it's societal. It naturally follows that a certain type of person will be anti-gay because of this whether or not they join a religion or not.

Also, you haven't proven anything with your statistics.

I've proven statistical correlations, studies that back this up by people stating their reasons for being anti-gay due to religion, and I've also cited that religious leaders and religious texts are anti-gay.

That's as close as anyone can come to proof, and far closer than you will ever get with this insulting, ridiculous assertion that religion has nothing to do with people who are against gay marriage.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I think my point is that anti gay mentality goes beyond religion. A lot of times people that are secular still think like Christians in a society with a Christian heritage.

Yes I think it is.

Strangelove said that the fundamentalist just take those bits out of the bible that fit their agenda/hatreds best. And I agree with him.

The bible (especially the old testimony) contains lots of things. The Leviticus alone, which contains the sentence that homosexuality is an abomination contains lots of other rules that forbid things that are rather normal nowadays (even by fundamentalists).

For example shellfish is an abomination as well, you

Here is an interesting collection of those rules thtat aren´t really enforced by the fundamentalists that don´t grow tired to quote Leviticus on homosexuality:

http://www.fallwell.com/selective%20quotation.html

Especially slavery seems to be a hot topic. Both, old as well as new testament seem to have very positive opinions about slavery.
If your slave is a male hebrew you can keep him for 6 years then you have to set him free unless he decides to become your slave forever. Female hebrew slaves and slaves from other nations however can be kept forever.

And if you are jealous of the muslims because they can marry multiple women, don´t be. You may not be able to get multiple wifes, but you can marry one wife and an undefined number of female slaves for sexual pleasures (so many as you wish) as long as your female slaves get enough food and that you don´t neglect the female slaves in favor of your wife (i.e. that you "share the bed" as much with each female slave as you do with your wife).

The new testimony isn´t opposed of slavery as well and you find numerous passages where christian slaves are encouraged to obey their masters well, so that they don´t bring shame on the christian god.

See here for example:

http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm

So, if you one time see a religious anti gay protestor who holds op a shield with "Homosexuality is an abomination (Lev. 18:22)" ask him when was the last time that he has aten shrimp or lobster (Forbidden according to Lev. 11:11) eaten Posk (Lev. 11:7) and when he has shaved the last time (yes, shavin is forbidden acccording to Lev. 19:27)

[Kidlicious]

Proteus_MST,

Yes, but as Asher has stated, most Christians don't have such moderate views. Christianity has to be judged as it is, not as it should be.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Asher

I've proven statistical correlations, studies that back this up by people stating their reasons for being anti-gay due to religion, and I've also cited that religious leaders and religious texts are anti-gay.

That's as close as anyone can come to proof, and far closer than you will ever get with this insulting, ridiculous assertion that religion has nothing to do with people who are against gay marriage.

I'm not saying that it has nothing to do with it. It clearly does. I'm just saying that the causes of anti-gay go much deaper.

[BeBMan]

In (Western) Europe the moderate version is rather the rule.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by BeBro
In (Western) Europe the moderate version is rather the rule.

I don't doubt that, but I took it that Asher was talking about NA.

[Proteus_MST]

I absolutely agree with BeBro.

The protestant fundamentalism that seems to be common in america seems tlo be rather the exception in european countries.

In europe the catholicas are more fundemantalist than the protestants (who, here, are the most liberal church), and the catholics in europe are as well much less fundamentalist than the protestants in the USA.

Might have something to do with the churches in america being forced to finance themselves by donations from their members. In european countries churcheds are normally financed by church taxes (and even the protestant churches normally are part of larger organisations), meaning that they don´t have to attract new well paying members with attractive slogans like "The end is near" or "Homosexuality is an abomination"