I want you to have my organs, but you can't have 'em

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Really, the last time you tried to give my argument you got it wrong.

You'll have to forgive anyone who tries to make sense of the crap you spouted here.

You are the only one in this thread who has responded that way, other then Mobius. Now, maybe you should reconsider the company you are keeping. There have been replies in this thread that have avoided insults, I am asking that you keep this standard.

If you don't want me to use "insults" towards you -- that tend to describe the permanent state of delusion you're in -- then perhaps you should stop saying bat**** crazy things. I call them as I see them.

Yes, you don't like me, that's a great excuse asher. I don't like you very much and I'll be the first to admit it. I suspect you'd be happy with a circle jerk here where everyone agrees with you and doesn't challenge your arguments.

It's not that I don't like you (but that's true, I don't). It's just that in all of your years on Apolyton, I've never seen you put forth a coherent argument. The fact that you're so oblivious to this and keep posting anyway is amazing to me, and not in a good way. You're the king of strawmen, which is a sign of inherent dishonesty or inherent comprehension problems -- and in either case, it's no good.

I'll be happy to get out of the way of this thread if that is what you prefer Asher.

You're not contributing anything either way, so you might as well save us all the trouble. Thanks.

[Ben Kenobi]

You'll have to forgive anyone who tries to make sense of the crap you spouted here.

The other folks haven't had any trouble following along with the points I've been making.

If you don't want me to use "insults" towards you -- that tend to describe the permanent state of delusion you're in -- then perhaps you should stop saying bat**** crazy things. I call them as I see them.

ok, 'spouting crap, 'delusion,' 'bat**** crazy,'

Cool I'll have my bingo card filled. Just need one more word.

It's not that I don't like you (but that's true, I don't). It's just that in all of your years on Apolyton, I've never seen you put forth a coherent argument.

I chalk that up to personal bias. Really you should try to consider why it is that someone would never have anything coherent to say? I disagree with you asher, but I'd never say that you were 'deluded' or 'crazy' or that "I can't understand your arguments, ergo they are wrong."

You're not contributing anything either way, so you might as well save us all the trouble. Thanks.

Ok, enjoy your thread Asher.

I'm glad to see you are openminded as ever to contrary opinions.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
The other folks haven't had any trouble following along with the points I've been making.

Yes, a lot do have trouble following along. Most just don't bother posting because you're too nice a guy to say it to.

I chalk that up to personal bias. Really you should try to consider why it is that someone would never have anything coherent to say? I disagree with you asher, but I'd never say that you were 'deluded' or 'crazy' or that "I can't understand your arguments, ergo they are wrong."

Even Agathon has come up with coherent arguments once in a while. Most people on Apolyton do, whether I agree or disagree is another matter. It has nothing to do with personal bias, you just make leaps and jumps that make no logical sense. You throw in random assumptions where it fits your case (In this thread alone, off the top of my head: 2% of population is gay, accepting gay organs doubles the chance of a disease in any one transplant, people will stop getting transplants if gays can donate organs). You miss the complete basis of the argument clearly in the opening posts and then willfully ignore it when people point it out to you. You make ridiculous comparisons like a monogamous homosexual couple are equal in risk as IV drug users. There's simply nothing coherent about anything you've said in this thread, and that's a very common pattern in all of your posts here.

Ok, enjoy your thread Asher.

I'm glad to see you are openminded as ever to contrary opinions.

I'm open to contrary opinions, just not people who can't make any sense and constantly use strawmen.

[Perfection]

Ben, I'd like to hear your thoughts on my posty here.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=5163058#post5163058

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I certainly don't want a gay man's organ in me

A heart is a heart, and a kidney is a kidney! Got it?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Asher, should they be able to donate blood too?

Really, it ain't about the rights of the donor but about the rights of the recipient.

The last thing we should be worrying about are hurt feelings of those who can't donate.

I think sexually active gay men, just like sexually active straight men should be allowed to donate blood.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
If they can't donate blood why should they be able to donate organs?

Both negatory policies are ridiculously wrong.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Perfection
Ben, I'd like to hear your thoughts on my posty here.
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...58#post5163058

Same for me regarding this posting:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=5163576#post5163576

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by MrFun





A heart is a heart, and a kidney is a kidney! Got it?

I think you're the one who didn't get it.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Some like Ben Kenobi, and Patroklos actually give their prejudices away by basically assuming that gay = infected...

Come on dude. You know that know one is assuming that. How can you expect people to read your whole post when you make statements like that at the beginning.

[Asher]

Kid: Read the thread.

Here's two quotes from Ben:

So why should we accept donations that are harmful just to make the donor feel better?

("donations that are harmful" = donations from gay men)

Giving someone a diseased organ doesn't help them any. They need to be healthy otherwise the organ donation is a waste of time.

This was in direct reply to the argument that there's an organ shortage already. Ben's argument was by allowing them to take a banned organ from a gay man, they'd be taking a diseased organ.

Now, it's possible Ben doesn't really mean this, but then that'd be yet another example of Ben not being able to construct a coherent argument...

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Asher


You can, yes. It's not a question that they ask.

Not sure what your point is.

\

This was in response to the question of whether one could donate if one slept with whores.

At least with regard to blood donation, um, they sure do ask that question. I have to answer that question every 8 weeks. I particularly like the variation that goes "have you every accepted money, drugs or other payment for sex?" Translation: are you a whore?


I'm pretty sure if you answer yes to any of the prostitution questions, you're politely shown the door.

-Arrian

[Asher]

This was in response to the question of whether one could donate if one slept with whores.

At least with regard to blood donation, um, they sure do ask that question. I have to answer that question every 8 weeks. I particularly like the variation that goes "have you every accepted money, drugs or other payment for sex?" Translation: are you a whore?


I'm pretty sure if you answer yes to any of the prostitution questions, you're politely shown the door.

That doesn't ask if you've slept with a whore, it asks if you are a whore.

[Arrian]

Sigh. They ask if you've ever slept with a whore too, Asher. I just find the "are you a whore" question funnier.

-Arrian

[Gibsie]

Reiko provided some interesting stats earlier. Current methodology will fail to detect HIV in less than one in a million cases. 4000 people are waiting for new organs.

So let's start making some wild, crazy Ben Kenobi-esque assumptions. Let's assume that this figure of 4000 is the rate of people needing new organs per year. Then let's assume that out of every 100 gays that give blood, 10 are actually HIV positive! Why, they're everywhere, and they're diseased!!!! So that means that 10% of organs are infected, and so 10% of samples that are tested have to be chucked. One in a million of these samples passes the HIV test despite being diseased, however (I mean the disease of being HIV positive of course- not the disease of being gay!!!).

That means that if gays are allowed to donate organs, then in the next 1250 years, on average one person will develop HIV as a result. And that's using worst-case stats.

Of course in actuality, the chance of a gay man giving his organs and the one-in-a-million testing failing and actually being HIV positive (And presumably each organ is tested individually - hell, if gays are donating, test 'em twice - let's see those damn homos beat odds of one in a trillion!!!), and then those organs being used is far, far less frequent than one in every 1250 years. It'd probably never actually happen.

I for one, am touched that Ben Kenobi is so concerned for the life of a single person that may or may not exist in the next 1000 years. Those other 28 a year though, you know, the ones that actually exist and need organs here and now... they're not important.