Peter Jackson signs on for the Hobbit

[Arrian]

It's either in the Simarillion or in the appendices of LotR, but I've definitely read about the White Council v. Necromancer.

And they hardly added anything to LotR - they did more substitution than addition (Arwen for Glorfindel, the ghost army being at Minas Tirith instead of at Pelargir).

Additions: elves at Helm's Deep, Faramir/hobbits in Osgiliath, Arwen-Elrond argument (though that is hinted at in the book, IIRC - their parting was "bitter" or somesuch).

I didn't like several of the changes that were made (Faramir in particular and to a lesser extent the ghost army @ Pelannor fields). But they didn't "make a bunch of stuff up" - mostly they moved things around or cut them. Only a very few things were conjured up out of thin air. And on those things, I suspect I agree with you (though I came to be fine with Elves @ Helms Deep).

As for the Hobbit... 2 films does seem a bit odd. I wonder if they will each be a more "normal" length.

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Patroklos


She adds nothing to the plot in the books, just a nice humanizing thing to develope Aragorn. She really is irrelevent.

And she wasn't at Rivendell. You might remember that the greates warriars and wizard of the age had enough trouble getting to Lothlorien themselves

Rivendell isnt at Lothlorien, you do recall that?

Rivendell isnt that hard to get to, its on the great east road, which is frequently traversed by passing parties of dwarves.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Patroklos

Hell, why the hell didn't Aragon send the ghosts to go take out Minus Mogal and half of Mordor while they were at it.

The ghosts only signed a one-picture deal, and that would have carried them into Return of the King.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Patroklos

Yes I should have mentione that, but the charge of the Rohirrim fails. It is the arrival of fresh Gondor forces that carries the day in the book.

The first Rohan charge averts the fall of the city, which was about to take place. IIRC, after the second charge, its not clear whos going to win - Eomers despair is mainly personal, after the "death" if his sister - its only when the "corsairs" arrive that it seems certain that Mordor will carry the day.

[Arrian]

Arwen *is* at Rivendell in the book. I think she arrives after the Hobbits do, either right before, or right after, the council.

-Arrian

[Patroklos]

On the contrary, she provides the motive force for Aragorns assertion of the kingship.

No she doesn't. Aragorn was the rightful hier to the thrown of Gondor regardless of who he married. Gondor would have accepted his authority. Not only that, but Aragorn became king AFTER Sauron was defeated.

So as far as the LotR was concerned, Arwen is irrelevant to the plot or the outcome of that plot. For the greater Tolkien mythology sure she has some ancilary relevance, but orders of magnitude less than hundreds of other characters in the Silm.

If Aragorn didn't marry Aragorn, so what? Sauron is gone, Gondor is restored, the elves are fading anyways. Sure it rounds out some lose ends, but who cares?

And they hardly added anything to LotR - they did more substitution than addition (Arwen for Glorfindel, the ghost army being at Minas Tirith instead of at Pelargir).

Yes they did, and their decisions are astonishingly poor on both counts.

(though I came to be fine with Elves @ Helms Deep).

I would have been fine with that too, until Peterson decided to have the elves use their bows and arrows as melee weapons. Every time he told them to hold their fire I wanted to scream "SHUT THE FCUK UP YOU NOOb, FIRE FIRE!"

The ghosts only signed a one-picture deal, and that would have carried them into Return of the King.

That is the flick they were in.

Rivendell isnt at Lothlorien, you do recall that

Yes I do, which is exactly the point. Here we have the most courageous warriers of all races, the most wise and powerful wizard of the land, and they struggle and almost don't make it to Lothlorien from Rivendel.

So since Arwen is definetly seen at Lothlorien in the books, and you guys say she was at Rivendell, how did she make the journey over the same ground at the same time? Sauron was already scouring those regions looking for the ring party, I doubt less qualified Arwen would escape the attention of his forces, nor do I think adding the daughter of the most powerful Elven king to his rape dungeons would have not interested him.

Maybe she decided to take the Red Eye into Lorien, I hear they have discouted tickets on the weekdays seeing how poor tourism is during Ring Wars.

Rivendell isnt that hard to get to, its on the great east road, which is frequently traversed by passing parties of dwaves

Thats great, but Lothlorien is south of Rivendell, not east of west.

Arwen *is* at Rivendell in the book. I think she arrives after the Hobbits do, either right before, or right after, the

If she is, Tolkien loses story telling points.

[snoopy369]

Oh god, can we please move this to the LotR geekfight subforum...

[Patroklos]

http://www.glyphweb.com/Arda/default.asp?url=http://www.glyphweb.com/Arda/g/gondor.html

The daughter and youngest child of Elrond and Celebrían, born in the third century of the Third Age. She lived out her long life at her father's House at Rivendell, and also at times among her mother's people in Lórien. In the year III 2951, when she was 2,710 years old, she returned from a time in Lórien to meet the young Aragorn, at that time being fostered by Elrond.

Soon after that encounter, Aragorn left to adventure in the Wild, but Arwen met him again in Lórien some twenty-nine years later. On the mound of Cerin Amroth, the two plighted their troth. Aragorn's horse Roheryn was a gift from Arwen, and when he went to war at the end of the Third Age, Arwen made a jewelled banner for him. It was this banner that he flew from the captured ships of the Corsairs at the Battle of the Pelennor.

She wasn't there. Here character in the movie is eniterly made up by Perterson. Arwen is simply a lady in waiting, nothing more.

[Dinner]

The Hobbit would make an excellent movie. To bad about it being two parts though I guess it means they can fit more in. I predict a strange combo of pimply faced 15 year old boys and middle aged geeks (like myself) in the audience.

[Patroklos]

Oh god, can we please move this to the LotR geekfight subforum...

Tolkien Subforum

[-Jrabbit]

According to my wife (who is quite geeky on the topic), Jackson has always seen The Hobbit as a 2-film project -- one to tell the basic story, the other to create a bridge to the LOTR trilogy.

They will, of course, film both simultaneously, yet still manage to produce an amazing number of continuity errors.

[snoopy369]

Well, if you do two things at once, what do you expect... syncronous timelines causes all sorts of problems

[Ben Kenobi]

No mention of the mess with Sarumon, and his palantir?

Plus he cut out the whole scouring of the shire.

I can see them doing two movies on the hobbit, even with the long ones, they cut out quite a bit of stuff from the Lord of the Rings.

[Ben Kenobi]

No she doesn't. Aragorn was the rightful hier to the thrown of Gondor regardless of who he married. Gondor would have accepted his authority. Not only that, but Aragorn became king AFTER Sauron was defeated.

Did he really want the crown? LOTM is correct that she was a big motivation for Aragorn to assume the crown. Elrond knows that for the longest time Aragorn chose to remain in the north and not claim the crown.

[Patroklos]

No mention of the mess with Sarumon, and his palantir

Yeah, that was another one

Did he really want the crown? LOTM is correct that she was a big motivation for Aragorn to assume the crown. Elrond knows that for the longest time Aragorn chose to remain in the north and not claim the crown.

He was hiding in the North because he was waiting for the war to start. Remember, his line was shamed for what Isiliador (sp, its been awhile) had done with the ring. He had to redeem his line before he could be king (in his mind anyways).

Honestly, besides being a hot piece of ass, what does Arwen have to do with the high level politics of Men? The elves were fading anyways, so why even worry about an alliance with Elrond AFTER the war? Hell, its not like Elrond did **** to support the war effort in the first place. All elves for that matter.