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Planet Earth without the USA

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Patroklos


    So they are not even going to nuke a third party, they are going to nuke themselves



    I imagine with their own country destoyed and their families dead, these marauding armies will lose intrest in the niceties of current western style warfare. Rule by the rod

    Do you know what European military history is like? In such a crisis situation I don't find it that unlikely.

    How many US troops would get to Europe in the first place, since most US troops are not stationed there… And how many would survive first contact or prolonged conflict with NATO forces? What about guerrilla warfare? And eventually they would start dying, they could marry and reproduce, but they would have to adopt a Spartan culture to maintain such control over 470 million EU citizens or even 700 million Europeans.
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Comment

    • #62
      Originally posted by Whoha
      You said no subs. The nuclear triad is a bit more resilient then that.
      I first said all US forces in US territory (that includes US airspace and costal waters) and any nuclear subs, since I assumed you don't use disel ones to carry Nukes, are gone.

      I said in a later post no Nukes.


      Originally posted by Vesayen
      You didn't say anything about no subs or no nukes in the original post. I reject your new parameters. I will assume that any forces out of the U.S. are as they were.

      U.S. forces are not going to try to blackmail anyone, the army is made of citizen soldiers, not hessian mercenaries.
      Those US citizens would change mighty quick. Unless NATO took command of them, in that case they would become normal EU/Canadian citizens. I'm curious did US troops during the cold war have any instructions as to what to do if the US got nuked or if they lost contact?
      Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
      The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
      The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

      Comment

      • #63
        China is a real wildcard, what does it do?
        China is easy, 300 million unemployed peasents will burn the place to ground, unless all billion of them don't starve to death first.

        Do you know what European military history is like? In such a crisis situation I don't find it that unlikely.
        We killed all the good ones in dubya dubya Too. The only ones left are ubermetro pansies

        How many US troops would get to Europe in the first place, since most US troops are not stationed there…
        About 75,000. We could probably get another 100,000 there using our fleet which would domintat the world for about a decade before breaking down (our true trump card, we could halt the world economy in a heart beat).

        And how many would survive first contact or prolonged conflict with NATO forces?
        America is NATO. See Kosavo.

        What about guerrilla warfare?
        We wouldn't be playing nice, think Holinists. Or the Romans.

        eventually they would start dying, they could marry and reproduce, but they would have to adopt a Spartan culture to maintain such control over 470 million EU citizens or even 700 million Europeans.
        Our families are dead, we would probably be more interested in rape and rapine than establishing a long standing dynasty or state.

        Those US citizens would change mighty quick. Unless NATO took command of them, in that case they would become normal EU/Canadian citizens. I'm curious did US troops during the cold war have any instructions as to what to do if the US got nuked or if they lost contact?
        Find the nearest Russkie and killem.
        "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

        Comment

        • #64
          Originally posted by Heraclitus


          I first said all US forces in US territory (that includes US airspace and costal waters) and any nuclear subs, since I assumed you don't use disel ones to carry Nukes, are gone.

          I said in a later post no Nukes.
          I'm pretty sure that if we had nukes in the air, there would be some international airspace. Likewise the carriers might have nukes, and wouldn't be in US territorial waters. Finally it is not unthinkable that silos might be on non-US soil, though I wouldn't bet on it.

          We don't really have diesel subs anymore. We may export some.

          Comment

          • #65
            We don't really have diesel subs anymore. We may export some.
            No diesel subs
            "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

            Comment

            • #66
              This thread makes me think of a Wierd Al Yankovic song called, "I'm white and nerdy."

              They see me mowin' my front lawn
              I know they're all thinkin' I'm so
              White and nerdy

              Think I'm just too white and nerdy
              Think I'm just too white and nerdy
              Can't you see I'm white and nerdy
              Look at me I'm white and nerdy

              I wanna roll with the gangstas
              But so far they all think I'm too
              White and nerdy

              Think I'm just too white and nerdy
              Think I'm just too white and nerdy
              I'm just too white and nerdy
              Really, really white and nerdy

              First in my class here at MIT
              Got skills, I'm a champion at D&D
              M.C. Escher, that's my favorite M.C.
              Keep you're 40, I'll just have an Earl Grey tea
              My rims never spin, to the contrary
              You'll find that they're quite stationary
              All of my action figures are cherry
              Stephen Hawking's in my library

              My MySpace page is all totally pimped out
              Got people beggin' for my top eight spaces
              Yo, I know pi to a thousand places
              Ain't got no grills but I still wear braces
              I order all of my sandwiches with mayonnaise
              I'm a wiz at Minesweeper, I could play for days
              Once you've see my sweet moves, you're gonna stay amazed
              My fingers movin' so fast I'll set the place ablaze

              There's no killer app I haven't run (run)
              At Pascal, well I'm number one (one)
              Do vector calculus just for fun
              I ain't got a gat, but I got a soldering gun (what?)
              Happy Days is my favorite theme song
              I could sure kick your butt in a game of ping pong
              I'll ace any trivia quiz you bring on
              I'm fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon(in part)


              They see me roll on my Segway
              I know in my heart they think I'm
              White and nerdy

              Think I'm just too white and nerdy
              Think I'm just too white and nerdy
              Can't you see I'm white and nerdy
              Look at me I'm white and nerdy
              [White & Nerdy lyrics on http://www.metrolyrics.com]


              I'd like to roll with the gangstas
              Although it's apparent I'm too
              White and nerdy

              Think I'm just too white and nerdy
              Think I'm just too white and nerdy
              I'm just too white and nerdy
              How'd I get so white and nerdy

              I been browsin', inspectin' X-Men comics
              You know I collect 'em
              The pens in my pocket, I must protect them
              My ergonomic keyboard never leaves me bored
              Shoppin' online for deals on some writable media
              I edit Wikipedia
              I memorized Holy Grail really well
              I can recite it right now and have you R-O-T-F-L-O-L

              I got a business doing websites (websites)
              When my friends need a code, who do they call?
              I do HTML for 'em all
              Even made a homepage for my dog (yo)
              I got myself a fanny pack
              They were havin' a sale down at The Gap
              Spend my nights with a role of bubble wrap
              Pop, pop - hope no one sees me get freaky

              I'm nerdy in the extreme
              Im Whiter than sour cream
              I was in A/V club and glee club
              And even the chess team
              Only question I ever thought was hard was
              "Do I like Kirk or do I like Picard?"
              Spend every weekend at the Renaissance Fair
              Got my name on my underwear

              They see me strollin', they laughin'
              And rollin' their eyes cause I'm so
              White and nerdy

              Just because I'm white and nerdy
              Just because I'm white and nerdy
              All because I'm white and nerdy
              Holy cow, I'm white and nerdy

              I wanna bowl with the gangstas
              But oh well, it's obvious I'm
              White and nerdy

              Think I'm just too white and nerdy
              Think I'm just too white and nerdy
              I'm just too white and nerdy
              Look at me I'm white and nerdy
              Last edited by Kidlicious; December 6, 2007, 16:42.
              I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
              - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

              Comment

              • #67
                Heh, if you know the song it is a parody of its even better.

                In the event of no nukes then the world will still probably find itself in a global war, with the West(sans the US but with its military), vs everyone else.

                Comment

                • #68
                  Why we are masters of the planet

                  "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

                  Comment

                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Whoha
                    Heh, if you know the song it is a parody of its even better.
                    Yea, it's cool.
                    I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                    - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                    Comment

                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Whoha
                      In the event of no nukes then the world will still probably find itself in a global war, with the West(sans the US but with its military), vs everyone else.
                      Hardly
                      THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
                      AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
                      AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
                      DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

                      Comment

                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Patroklos


                        China is easy, 300 million unemployed peasents will burn the place to ground, unless all billion of them don't starve to death first.
                        No, the Chinese have a good track record of suppressing their populace (think the great leap forward), and hey they have a whole new continent to colonize!


                        Originally posted by Patroklos
                        About 75,000. We could probably get another 100,000 there using our fleet which would domintat the world for about a decade before breaking down (our true trump card, we could halt the world economy in a heart beat).

                        America is NATO. See Kosavo.
                        200, 000 is not enough to defeat the UK, let alone the UK, Germany and France. The point about the trump card fits into my blackmail scenario.

                        Since America is gone the NATO framework just encommpases Canada and Europe, giving them a common command structure. Anyhow this is
                        self-defence the contries involved don't need to muster popular support.


                        Originally posted by Patroklos
                        We wouldn't be playing nice, think Holinists. Or the Romans.

                        Our families are dead, we would probably be more interested in rape and rapine than establishing a long standing dynasty or state.
                        Think Jews under Rome. Think Russia, think Poland, think Yugoslavia during WW2. That was total war and harsh occupation and It was still a nightmare.

                        Anyway I proposed marriage, since most US troops are probably male and they would need to reproduce, perhaps raping women and stealing babies would work fine too.
                        And read a bit about Sparta, I thought the Europeans could be in a similar situation to the Helots. That is precisely the state/dynasty you were talking about; a small warrior minority that oppresses the culturally similar majority.

                        Even if you did succeed in such an attack and occupation, you would still have to share Europe with Russia, since they would not sit still while American troops were busy conquering their former sphere of influence (Central&East Europe). Heck Happy Putin might even go so far to occupy all of Europe and proclaim the Eurasian Russian Federation, the local population might even see them as liberators.
                        Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                        The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                        The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                        Comment

                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Whoha
                          Heh, if you know the song it is a parody of its even better.

                          In the event of no nukes then the world will still probably find itself in a global war, with the West(sans the US but with its military), vs everyone else.
                          Why would there be a global war? Who would constitute "the west"? why would everybody else join together to fight "the west" whoever the west might be?

                          Comment

                          • #73
                            200, 000 is not enough to defeat the UK, let alone the UK, Germany and France. The point about the trump card fits into my blackmail scenario.
                            It is enough to defeat every standing military in Europe, just not to occupy it. Which they won't want to do, like I said.

                            Think Jews under Rome. Think Russia, think Poland, think Yugoslavia during WW2. That was total war and harsh occupation and It was still a nightmare.
                            Who said anything about occupation. Think Ostrogoths/Visigoths. We just rush in, spank your armies, let you pay us off, and then head back to a small place we carved out for ourselves (souther italy sounds nice).

                            That is precisely the state/dynasty you were talking about; a small warrior minority that oppresses the culturally similar majority.
                            I don't think they will start a state or dynasty. While perhaps a little bloodthristy, they will still be Americans. We don't do the whole "SPARTAAAA!!!" thing. We will just steal, take, and demand tribute until we fade away...

                            Even if you did succeed in such an attack and occupation, you would still have to share Europe with Russia, since they would not sit still while American troops were busy conquering their former sphere of influence
                            They will be too busy with 500 million Chinese refugees to care about us.
                            "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

                            Comment

                            • #74
                              Originally posted by LordShiva


                              Hardly
                              Agreed.

                              I think a new Cold war with an even more unstable middle east would be the worst possible short term conflict. Anyway nuclear arsenals would keep rash decisions to a minimal.

                              Perhaps India, EU vs. China vs. Russia
                              or EU,Russia vs. China vs. India.

                              Or just a multi-polar world like the one in the 19th century.
                              Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                              The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                              The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                              Comment

                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Geronimo
                                Why would there be a global war? Who would constitute "the west"? why would everybody else join together to fight "the west" whoever the west might be?
                                For starters, the major import market of the entire world just vanished. Chinas somewhat far off problem just got dumped in their lap immediately. The west would make common cause against this because it has previously done so, and the other groups, while not unified themselves, would attack. World peace is actually not the normal state of things.

                                The west generally falls under all of our treaty partners, nato,seato,etc.

                                Comment

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