Chinese sub plays Marco Polo with US Navy battle fleet... and wins.

[Vanguard]

There is no reason to think that Carrier Groups have decent defense against sea-skimming missiles. Stark didn't even detect the two Exocets which hit it (until they were seen by lookouts!), let alone fire on them.

Sea-skimming anti-ship missiles have miniscule radar cross-sections that are almost undetectable due to the effect of the ocean on radar beams. Without radar detection, defense is essentially impossible.

Practical carrier defense relies on shooting down airplanes before they get in range to launch missiles. With China, this will not be possible. No carrier task group is going to be able to take out the Chinese air force.

[DinoDoc]

Well we had trouble with kamikazes during WWII as well, Vanguard.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Dis


all I know is the Chinese kicked our ass pretty badly in Korea. Sure they didn't win out (stalemate), but the put the hurt on us. Yes our technology has gotten much better, but so has theirs (chinese troops in Korea were badly equipped).

I had an Uncle in Naval Intelligence who knew a few interesting things about that war. I believe the true Chinese casualty estimates are still classified. It is unlikely that even China would be able to withstand those kinds of losses with a modern army.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Vanguard
There is no reason to think that Carrier Groups have decent defense against sea-skimming missiles. Stark didn't even detect the two Exocets which hit it (until they were seen by lookouts!), let alone fire on them.

Sea-skimming anti-ship missiles have miniscule radar cross-sections that are almost undetectable due to the effect of the ocean on radar beams. Without radar detection, defense is essentially impossible.

Practical carrier defense relies on shooting down airplanes before they get in range to launch missiles. With China, this will not be possible. No carrier task group is going to be able to take out the Chinese air force.

While the Brits had also heavy losses due to Argentinian Exocets in 1982 HMS Gloucester managed to destroy an incoming Iraqi anti-ship missile (no Exocet, but still) in 1991. So it's not impossible, but yeah, the question remains how it would be during a massive attack.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by BeBro


the question remains how it would be during a massive attack.

Bloody.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by BlackCat


Nah, While it may sound as a reasonable explanation it probably isn't the truth.

Danish subs has often taken nice pics of US carriers though their periscopes when they shouldn't have been able to do such, so why shouldn't chinese subs not be able to do similiar ?

Here is an "camera attack" in a nato exercise on D.D. Eisenhower.

http://www.navalhistory.dk/Danish/So...ilUbaadene.htm

Are your people going "a viking" again?

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by PLATO


Bloody.

Indeed.

I suggest no war US - China

[Dr Strangelove]

I doubt that a Carrier fleet sails with active sonar continually running, especially in peacetime, so I believe that Impaler's scenario is fairly plausible. Furthermore, if the sub were resting near the bottom or under a thermal inversion layer active sonar wouldn't detect it. Since you can't have every ship in the fleet using its sonar at the same time, the Chinese sub could have waited for the ship using sonar to pass, then it could have surfaced. Since the carrier is the main ship of the fleet and therefore in the center of the group it would not be hard for the sub to figure out which ship to spook.

[DinoDoc]

We were planning on a cold war anyway.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
We were planning on a cold war anyway.

That's not fair. They've got flu on their side.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
I doubt that a Carrier fleet sails with active sonar continually running, especially in peacetime, so I believe that Impaler's scenario is fairly plausible. Furthermore, if the sub were resting near the bottom or under a thermal inversion layer active sonar wouldn't detect it. Since you can't have every ship in the fleet using its sonar at the same time, the Chinese sub could have waited for the ship using sonar to pass, then it could have surfaced. Since the carrier is the main ship of the fleet and therefore in the center of the group it would not be hard for the sub to figure out which ship to spook.

In active warfare, you would also have a lot of helos in the air with magnetic anomaly detectors running well ahead of the fleet. Any anomolies would get a slew of sonobouys pinging away.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by BeBro


Indeed.

I suggest no war US - China

Excellent plan.

The questions is what do we do about Taiwan?

[Winston]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove

We were planning on a cold war anyway.

That's not fair. They've got flu on their side.

[Dis]

Originally posted by PLATO


Excellent plan.

The questions is what do we do about Taiwan?

nothing, it's not our country. The consensus on both sides seems to be to maintain the status quo. Though eventually China will see that we have more to lose by going to war than they do. Currently their economy relies on ours. If they could pull themselves out from that connection and be more diversified war could be feasible.

[DaShi]

If China could take Taiwan, it would.