Do the Kaczynski twins want to destroy Europe?

[Colonâ„¢]

They should have.

[Serb]

Re: Do the Kaczynski twins want to destroy Europe?

Originally posted by BeBro
Do the Kaczynski twins want to destroy Europe?

Of course.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Heresson
Kaczynskis are thinking about the past too much, that's true, but I don't like the idea of the bigger states ruling Europe by themselves.
I am afraid, also, that it's harder to forget about ww2 in a country that was probably its biggest victim, and that has been under foreign occupation and totalitarian regime for a half of century, than to comfy US, Germany who was to be blamed for this war, France who had a mild occupation, could at best lose Lorrain and Alsace again, and emerged free.
When someone tells me Poland should shut up, as Chirac has said once and as Barnabas has de facto said now, adding a reason, that it is poor, I do not think it is in any way wrong to point that it is, as well as other states of the region, poor for a reason.

The Poles weren't the only people to suffer losses during the middle of the twentieth century. Millions of Germans were displaced from their ancestral homes, places some of them have lived for upwards of 750 years. 1/4 of their country was lost. It's true that their country was the agressor in the second World War, but that doesn't mean that every single German person in Eastern Europe deserved to be killed or expelled from their land.

The bottom line is that the middle of the twentieth century led to atrocities against pretty much every group of people in Central and Eastern Europe. The end result, however, is a group of countries with well defined and stable borders (with the one exception being Königsberg / Kaliningrad, something that merits its own thread). People from both sides should accept that there were evil things done to both sides, and that the best way to atone for that past is to stop dwelling on it. No good will come from that.

That doesn't mean that I'm advising Poles to accept of deny any particular EU proposal. I'm just saying that there needs to be greater German-Pole cooperation, and a greater willingness to leave the past crimes in the past.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Heresson
One of the reasons why France and Germany should not have a decisive voice in Europe is that they will gladly abandon eastern european states such as Ukraine, Moldavia, Georgia, Belarus, to Russia for economical profit and a couple of hugs with teh lord Putin.

Sorry for a double response, but I found this to to be surprising. It's interesting that you, as a Poe, would be complaining that Germany isn't taking a more active and agressive stance towards the Ukraine. As you know, drawing the Ukraine into the German sphere of influence was a major German goal in both world wars. The Germans made Ukraine (and Poland) a quasi-independant vassal state in the treaty of Brest-Litovsk after WW1. They wanted to colonize and incorporate it into the Reich in WW2.

With that in mind, and with the above discussion centering on how many Poles feel bitterly and suspiciously towards Germany, I don't understand how you can also be angry at them for not exerting more power over the Ukraine. The Ukraine was the a prime goal of the 800 year Drang nach Osten. How can Poles both resent Germans for their past imperialistic attitudes towards the east, yet also castigate them for currently failing to exert more pressure on bringing Ukraine into their sphere of influence. A people as historically sensative as the Poles should be greatful that Germany isn't doing that, shouldn't they?

[Serb]

Poland sucks.

[Serb]

Kaczynski brothers

Wachovski brothers (actually a brother and a sister now, methinks)

Wachovski brothers for president and PM of Poland -

Long live the Matrix!!!

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Wycoff
How can Poles both resent Germans for their past imperialistic attitudes towards the east, yet also castigate them for currently failing to exert more pressure on bringing Ukraine into their sphere of influence. A people as historically sensative as the Poles should be greatful that Germany isn't doing that, shouldn't they?

Something about suffering decades of oppression from a country not named Germany might have something to do with that.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Wycoff


The Germans made Ukraine (and Poland) a quasi-independant vassal state in the treaty of Brest-Litovsk after WW1. They wanted to colonize and incorporate it into the Reich in WW2.

They wanted to make Ukraine a "German India" - their colony.

A people as historically sensative as the Poles should be greatful that Germany isn't doing that, shouldn't they?

No they shouldn't, becuase they are and always were a self-centered nuts, who believe that Poland is the center of the universe and whole world rotates around Poland.
Do not try to find any logic in Polish moves and words.

[Serb]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Something about suffering decades of oppression from a country not named Germany might have something to do with that.

Blah-blah-blah

[DinoDoc]

Would you prefer the term Happy-Fun time instead of oppression?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Wycoff
with the one exception being Königsberg / Kaliningrad, something that merits its own thread

Really? Explain yourself!

[Serb]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Would you prefer the term Happy-Fun time instead of oppression?

Semantics. What you see as oppression now, then was a military alliance.

US of A didn't tolerate Soviet presence in the Western hemisphere and overthrew Soviet-friendly regimes all the time. Then US replaced a democratically elected governments there with their own puppet dictatorships and huntas.

Why your opponent had to act differently?
So shut up.
The Cold war is the Cold war - à la guerre comme à la guerre.

[BeBMan]

Wow, what's going on here. Great to see all the non-Eurocoms caring so much about what's best for the EU

Originally posted by Heresson
Even in 1970 it was said explicitly that confirmation of the boarder by western Germany doesn't mean acceptance of the boarder by unified Germany.

Of course not, how can one part of Germany speak for the whole? The Western version always formulated a so-called "Alleinvertretungsanspruch", meaning it would indeed represent all of Germany, but that was more a political tool to make CommieGermany look irrelevant.

When a unified Germany finally came around, it just accepted that border without any problems.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by BeBro
When a unified Germany finally came around, it just accepted that border without any problems.

And without any delay I may add. Of course such details aren't explicitly mentioned in the press of our whiny, paranoid and openly hostile eastern neighbors. They prefer to publish the millionth picture of Erika Steinbach in SS uniform.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Of course such details aren't explicitly mentioned in the press of our whiny, paranoid and openly hostile eastern neighbors.

They prefer to publish the millionth picture of Erika Steinbach in SS uniform.

I bet they find her to be very hot, when she wears a SS uniform