Do the Kaczynski twins want to destroy Europe?

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by Wycoff


Your original post was saying that the West has basically concluded that WW2 and its aftermath settled the issues between Germany and the rest of Europe. If Poland doesn't consider things settled, and if Poland doesn't want to let by-gones be by-gones, then maybe Germany shouldn't accept that either.

In my post I said that it was an understanding between France and Germany that our secular enmity was to be ended. Then Benelux and Italy acknowledge that without Franco-German wars Europe could be initiated. The rest of Europe was not considered at this stage.
It becomes clearer that among the 21 who were added later, a significant number think that they can change the ground on which the union was originally build. This is a very good reason to revert to the original six plus Spain.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Heresson
And then the Germany happily agreed, without any consultations with Poland and other states interested, to build the pipeland through Baltic

Germany

Unfortunately the Germans are still too shy for bolder moves to fully restore their sovereignty. Perhaps anti-Russian prejudices are partly to blame.

[The Vagabond]

Europe of the original six + Spain

That would be a real entity, not the joke the present-day EU is.

[The Vagabond]

And expel the Brits. The sooner, the better. They are just the fifth column. The EU will never be nearly as important to them as their alliance with the US. Isn't this damn clear?

[Harovan]

If Poland vetos, the forces favoring the idea of a "core Europe", also called "Europe of 2 speeds", will gain strength. This is generally a good thing. May be, if this continues long enough, the EU-27 will crumble and we can get a core Europe of the original six + Spain.

[VetLegion]

Two speed Europe

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

Sweden. One of the handful EU-15 countries that didn't put up transitory rules to block labour migration from the new members.

Yet, the plumber still costs like crack and speaks with a Bosnian accent. Poland sucks

People from the Balkans are also responsible for much crime and unemployment in Sweden, but I think Sweden is too politically correct to admit that, let alone act on it.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by VetLegion


People from the Balkans are also responsible for much crime and unemployment in Sweden, but I think Sweden is too politically correct to admit that, let alone act on it.

Something tells me you didn't understand what I wrote.

[Colonâ„¢]

Originally posted by DAVOUT
The union was made possible when France and Germany accepted in the 50ies the scandalous idea that the past was settled once and for all by the second WW.

Screw that. North Brabant, Zeeuws Flanders and Eastern Limburg belong to Belgium, not the Netherlands.

[Lancer]

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by Colonâ„¢


Screw that. North Brabant, Zeeuws Flanders and Eastern Limburg belong to Belgium, not the Netherlands.

???

[Colonâ„¢]

And you still have to return us chunks of Flanders too.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Barnabas
Damn, I forgot italy, thanks for the correction

Barnabas' geopolitical knowledge

Originally posted by Barnabas
Poland is big, around 40 million people, like Spain

No, Poland is medium, 38,5 mln, and now de facto 36,5 or something like this probably. Meanwhile Spain has grown to 44.

Originally posted by Barnabas
The EU should be Germany, France, Benelux + Spain for vacations

Then call it Charlemagne Union, not European.

It was mostly a joke, with the kernel of truth in it being that Poland needs to move on. Basically everyone else has.

Kaczynskis are thinking about the past too much, that's true, but I don't like the idea of the bigger states ruling Europe by themselves.
I am afraid, also, that it's harder to forget about ww2 in a country that was probably its biggest victim, and that has been under foreign occupation and totalitarian regime for a half of century, than to comfy US, Germany who was to be blamed for this war, France who had a mild occupation, could at best lose Lorrain and Alsace again, and emerged free.
When someone tells me Poland should shut up, as Chirac has said once and as Barnabas has de facto said now, adding a reason, that it is poor, I do not think it is in any way wrong to point that it is, as well as other states of the region, poor for a reason.

Originally posted by Last Conformist

Sweden. One of the handful EU-15 countries that didn't put up transitory rules to block labour migration from the new members.

Yet, the plumber still costs like crack and speaks with a Bosnian accent. Poland sucks

Oh, sorry for that, but You speak some silly language no-one knows, and there was never a big tradition of emigrating to Sweden. Also, other countries are more attractive, it seems. I do not complain that Romanians do not flock to do fieldwork in Poland...

Originally posted by BeBro
What pipeline problem? I thought your gov thinks national interests come always first, so why doesn't this rule apply to Germany?

Have You read my post, Bernd? Poland did support Ukraine's interest, though we are not in union. You did act against our most vital interest. It was in our particular interest to accept the pipeline offer Russia has made for us, but it was denied not to leave Ukraine in the lurch. But Schroeder had no problem leaving in the lurch Ukraine, Poland and Belarus. And the results were visible when Russia closed pipeline to Belarus.

Re border - that's spin, Germany confirmed 1990 as *unified* country only what the two parts had acknowledged decades ago. Western Germany signed the Warsaw treaty 1970 (ratified two yrs later IIRC) which already accepted the Oder-Neisse line. The Eastern commie Germany had accepted that border even earlier during the 1950ies.

Even in 1970 it was said explicitly that confirmation of the boarder by western Germany doesn't mean acceptance of the boarder by unified Germany.

Originally posted by DAVOUT
Why then did you want to join the EU, since you did not ignore that Germany was in?

We started trying before Schroeder decided that his best friend in Europe is Putin.
Recently, I've read a poll in Russia where people were asked what are the most friendly countries towards it?
In the top five, Russia was, with such stars of democracy and enlightement as (respectively) Kazakhstan, Belarus, (Germany), China, (sorry!) Armenia and India.

http://osw.waw.pl/news/05/070531.htm

I dont understand your point about the eastern frontier; between 1945 and 1989, the RDA was not part of Germany, and nobody anticipated the brutal end that happened.

Unification of Germany was expected. Look at my post above.

Originally posted by DAVOUT


???

these are the catholic parts of Netherlands, I believe.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Europe of the original six + Spain

That would be a real entity, not the joke the present-day EU is.

If a patriotic Russian says that, it must be good for Europe indeed

One of the reasons why France and Germany should not have a decisive voice in Europe is that they will gladly abandon eastern european states such as Ukraine, Moldavia, Georgia, Belarus, to Russia for economical profit and a couple of hugs with teh lord Putin.
Germany has led a dumb and egoistic politics when it comes to relations with Russia, and so did France. Both prefered to keep closer Putin's Russia than USA, which for me is an outrage, if not for french and german posters here - well, I am sorry for You. I see no reason why Poland should support a treaty which would mean drastic decrease of its power and rise of the power of its adversaries who, though under different gouverments, did much to prove they will prefer their own small interest over long-standing interest of Poland, UE's partners in the east and UE in general?

[Colonâ„¢]

Originally posted by Heresson
these are the catholic parts of Netherlands, I believe.

No, these are the parts of Belgium that were stolen from us.

[Heresson]

I thought that Belgium's boarders haven't really changed since the independance, except for this german-speaking part, Malmedy or whatever