Do the Kaczynski twins want to destroy Europe?

[DAVOUT]

The union was made possible when France and Germany accepted in the 50ies the scandalous idea that the past was settled once and for all by the second WW. Poland should have been explained that this was a basic requirement for entering the union.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by DAVOUT
The union was made possible when France and Germany accepted in the 50ies the scandalous idea that the past was settled once and for all by the second WW. Poland should have been explained that this was a basic requirement for entering the union.

Well, perhaps during the establishing the fundaments of the Union, it should have been said to Germany as well: it was only in 1990 that Germany accepted its post-ww2 eastern frontier. If German politicians weren't playing the boarder card for their own particular interest for a half of century, there wouldn't be so much uncertainty about Germany here. There are non-marginal politicians in Germany that still make demands towards Poland - though their ifluence is probably overestimated in Poland. I do not think Germany is a threat to Poland any longer, but by its politics, it allowed itself to be seen as one.
Also, there is the pipe problem. Russia wanted to build a pipeline through Belarus and Poland, but Poland didn't want to do it, because it was (rightly) considered a way of pressuring Ukraine. Poland wanted the pipeline to cross Ukraine or some guarantees for it.
And then the Germany happily agreed, without any consultations with Poland and other states interested, to build the pipeland through Baltic (in fact through our territorial waters though we weren't asked).
Also, it was only after polish veto to EU-Russia talks that the EU finally got interested in russian embargo on Poland.
Which, again, was due to polish fight for independance of Ukraine from Russia.

Last Conformist, where are You from?

[DAVOUT]

Why then did you want to join the EU, since you did not ignore that Germany was in?

I dont understand your point about the eastern frontier; between 1945 and 1989, the RDA was not part of Germany, and nobody anticipated the brutal end that happened.

[BeBMan]

What pipeline problem? I thought your gov thinks national interests come always first, so why doesn't this rule apply to Germany?

Re border - that's spin, Germany confirmed 1990 as *unified* country only what the two parts had acknowledged decades ago. Western Germany signed the Warsaw treaty 1970 (ratified two yrs later IIRC) which already accepted the Oder-Neisse line. The Eastern commie Germany had accepted that border even earlier during the 1950ies.

It's true that some of the Western German righties weren't happy about Brandt's Ostpolitik and tried to torpedo it, but after the Warsaw treaty was ratified IIRC no German gov officially tried to change anything back.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Heresson
Last Conformist, where are You from?

Sweden. One of the handful EU-15 countries that didn't put up transitory rules to block labour migration from the new members.

Yet, the plumber still costs like crack and speaks with a Bosnian accent. Poland sucks

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by DAVOUT
The union was made possible when France and Germany accepted in the 50ies the scandalous idea that the past was settled once and for all by the second WW. Poland should have been explained that this was a basic requirement for entering the union.

Maybe Germany needs to explain it to them one more time, starting with a repatriation of Silesia and Pomerania

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by Wycoff


Maybe Germany needs to explain it to them one more time, starting with a repatriation of Silesia and Pomerania

I thought that Silesia and Pomerania were allocated to the West by agrement at Yalta. You can hardly accuse Germany of evil influence against Poland at Yalta.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by DAVOUT
I thought that Silesia and Pomerania were allocated to the West by agrement at Yalta. You can hardly accuse Germany of evil influence against Poland at Yalta.

They were (except for the Stettin issue. Stettin was supposed to remain German, but the Soviets decided against it).

Your original post was saying that the West has basically concluded that WW2 and its aftermath settled the issues between Germany and the rest of Europe. If Poland doesn't consider things settled, and if Poland doesn't want to let by-gones be by-gones, then maybe Germany shouldn't accept that either.

It was mostly a joke, with the kernel of truth in it being that Poland needs to move on. Basically everyone else has.

[Barnabas]

The EU should be Germany, France, Benelux + Spain for vacations

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by BeBro
What pipeline problem? I thought your gov thinks national interests come always first, so why doesn't this rule apply to Germany?

Youd think Germany might consider it has a national interest in not strengthening Russian leverage over Ukraine?

[lord of the mark]

Im afraid I dont understand why middle and small Euro countries being concerned about the influence of large ones means Poland is still focused on WW2. If someone were to propose a major constitutional change in the US, like say abolition of the electoral college, you can be damned sure the small, middle and large states would be analyzing its effects on their interests, and folks in South Carolina would be looking to see if more power to California would hurt them. It would hardly mean they were refighting the Civil War.

[Barnabas]

Poland is big, around 40 million people, like Spain

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Barnabas
The EU should be Germany, France, Benelux + Spain for vacations

True. EU-27

[Adalbertus]

Originally posted by Barnabas
The EU should be Germany, France, Benelux + Spain for vacations

And Northern Italy. Long live the Frankish Empire (and Spain for vacations).

[Barnabas]

Damn, I forgot italy, thanks for the correction