Crazy Christian Theology Question

[ZEE]

Jon Miller,

indeed God may have INSPIRED the bible, but he didnt write it. We cannot, however, take the Bible too literally because it has been translated DOZENS and dozens of times into many different languages. one word can change the entire meaning of a phrase or more. God was not in the form of the disciples therefore he did not directly write the bible. we must take it with a grain of salt...

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[Alexander I]

I believe the Bible as far as it has been translated/interpreted correctly, which is something difficult to empirically measure.

[Jon Miller]

Err, but you are completely ignoring the story of Adam and Eve, as well as the point of most everything else in the Bible.

God abhors evil, this is actually the reason why I am a bit confused by LotM's statements that God created evil (tbh, these both sound like dualistic). I have been (slowly) reading the book about prophet's by Hershel (SP?) and part of the point that comes out is how much God abhors evil.

In fact, this is a true in the NT as well. To say that God created evil is throwing more than just early Genesis out the window.

And you are missing the God part of inspired. If people were completely messing up His work, don't you think He would do something about it? Yeah, people still have freewill. And can still mistranslate (and have). But He protects it too, and the message is still there.

Isn't doubting that, sort of like doubting the power of God?

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Alexander I
I believe the Bible as far as it has been translated/interpreted correctly, which is something difficult to empirically measure.

Yeah, that is true. The deadsea scrolls which come from before AD are very similar to the books of the OT we have now...

Jon Miller

[ZEE]

Jon Miller,

So are we indeed damned if we dont believe every scripture in the bible? if i dont believe in Adam and Eve, but have given my soul to God and pray daily, does that mean that i am still going to Hell?

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[Jon Miller]

There is little evidence for an eternal Hell in the Bible. It doesn't exist in the OT, but the idea was around at the time of Jesus... (The only mention of Hell by Jesus, and I beleive the first mention of Hell in the Bible, is a story or parable. No other discussion of Hell is like that that is traditionally pictured, as a place of torment and burning that goes on forever)

Did you miss my comments about 'Myth'? The point is that even if something might not be factually true, it is still True, and should be treated as so.

And the big issue is that beleiving in things peicemeal weakens you, you don't really have the basis, and things start to not make sense.

One of the big problems with Beserker's point is that it makes God just like one of us. That is (once more, in the 'My'th') of the Bible the great sin that fell Lucifer. If you start throwing out bits, the whole starts making less sense, and it is much harder to Beleive. Might even become impossible to Beleive.

I recommend you to pray about this, and to study His word (in prayer) for the truth. Everything, from the first book, to the last, is against this interpreation.

Jon Miller

[Cartimandua]

Originally posted by Alexander I
I believe the Bible as far as it has been translated/interpreted correctly, which is something difficult to empirically measure.

I would have to agree with this statement. It seems that while much of the bible could be true, other parts may have been "tampered" with during translations etc.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Alexander I


Well, since God made Man, then Man belongs to God too.

Just 'cos you created something doesn't mean it belongs to you, commie!

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


We have many many many choices. Some we don't choose to sin, but we are fallen (see Original Sin) and as such, in this sinful world, none of us are good enough to never sin.

... which is effectively equivalent to that we cannot chose to never sin. So, again, why did God make us that way? If it's because of free will requires it, then either God doesn't have free will, or God sins. Since neither conclusion is acceptable to a remotely orthodox Christian, the appeal to free will falls.

I know of no standard Christinaity (not sure about Jehova's Witnesses) that maintain that Christ ever sinned.

That's because they're inconsistent. If I went about destroying fig trees like that they'd say I was sinning.

[Jon Miller]

In the 'Myth' Adam didn't have to sin. There are some who believe in sinless planets far from here.

This is sort of the point of Original Sin, it is that sin entered the world.. and now sin is something that we all have to deal with. Not only the consequences, but it is built into us.

Freewill is there, but we have an inclination to sin. It is like a person who likes chocolate. He doesn't have to eat chocolate, but the inclination is there. And while he has freewill, it is likely that he will eat some chocolate... even if it isn't often.

Now we don't know much about the Fig tree. How do we know if it was someone's property? And one of the ideas in the Bible is that everything belongs to God. I mean, Tithe is considered returning to God a portion of what is His. As such, how is that any different than God sending famine to Egypt or Israel or something.

And it wasn't pointless, it taught a lesson.

Jon Miller