Crazy Christian Theology Question

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Barnabas
Catholics believe the virgin mary never commited a sin

Yes, but they don't believe that the same is possible for the common man.

Actually, it only makes the problem worse; if the big guy could free her of original sin just like that, why couldn't or wouldn't he do the same for all of us? He's not playing favourites, is he?

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
I'm pretty sure the spiteful destruction of other's property (eg. fig trees) is a sin.

Well, not if Jesus is God. If so, then he created the fig tree and it was just on loan to the owner, if any, along with the air the owner was breathing, etc. And who says its destruction was out of spite?

[Barnabas]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
Yes, but they don't believe that the same is possible for the common man.

Actually, it only makes the problem worse; if the big guy could free her of original sin just like that, why couldn't or wouldn't he do the same for all of us? He's not playing favourites, is he?

It was a necessary condition for the incarnation of Jesus, since his human-ness he got from Mary

[Last Conformist]

Just 'cos you created something doesn't mean it belongs to you, commie!

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Barnabas


It was a necessary condition for the incarnation of Jesus, since his human-ness he got from Mary

Yes, but why was Jesus necessary at all if he can cancel original sin like that?

[Alexander I]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
Just 'cos you created something doesn't mean it belongs to you, commie!

Well, since God made Man, then Man belongs to God too. Our right to our own individual free agency is a gift to us from Him as well.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Berzerker

Then why did Jesus instruct his followers to pray to God for forgiveness and make the "requirement" for this forgiveness that we forgive others? If he died for our sins, why would we need to ask God for forgiveness in the first place?

"Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"... Jesus aint even in the picture, we pray to God and we are forgiven "as" we forgive others... That lays the burden on us, not Jesus. If you want God's forgiveness, you must forgive others.

He died for our sins. The gift is already there. All we must do is accept it. If I do something for you, and you don't accept it, it isn't as if it does you any good, does it?

You are once more misreading a single text, and interpreting everything else about that miscomprehension. And complaining about things not making sense.

Christ's sacrifice enabled those before and after Him to be forgiven, all their sins were upon Him on the cross, as He had no sin of His own.

As far as it goes, it is God's law that the wages of sin is death. That is set, if you will. We are all doomed to die because of sin. Now we can't get our sin forgiven by having someone else doomed to death to die for us, because they are dying for themselves. It is only by putting our sins on Christ, having Him pay the price, that we get our sins removed. And why does it work for Him? Because He didn't sin in life, as such He didn't die for His sins, and so can die for ours.

In the prayer Christ is praying to God. Remember, Christ is God also. Prayer is just as much for the person praying as for God, maybe even more for the person praying. Remember, God knows all our desires, and the all that needs doing. As such, this prayer serves as a reminder that we are to forgive others.

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

I'm pretty sure the spiteful destruction of other's property (eg. fig trees) is a sin.

Anyway, apart from being heretical - a sort of pelagianism -, you're position doesn't make much sense. What kind of choice is it if everyone choses to sin?

We have many many many choices. Some we don't choose to sin, but we are fallen (see Original Sin) and as such, in this sinful world, none of us are good enough to never sin.

I know of no standard Christinaity (not sure about Jehova's Witnesses) that maintain that Christ ever sinned.

Jon Miller

[Zkribbler]

What makes you think that AT&T will ever gain access to Heaven?

[ZEE]

Originally posted by Berzerker
God took the form of man and suffered among the worst of our fates, not because we aren't perfect, but because God created imperfections and we are afflicted with those imperfections...

This statement by Berzerker has stuck in my brain all day... it is a BIG QFT...

One CANT argue against this point, because God KNEW we had imperfections. This is the truest statement in this whole thread...

piece

[Jon Miller]

You are completely ignoring the 'Myth' of Adam.

You can't consider the 'Myth' of the Bible peicemeal. Well you can, but it isn't Christianity, and you can't say other's don't make sense because of it.

Jon Miller

[LordShiva]

What does 'Myth' mean?

[Jon Miller]

So what you think of directly as Myth is something like the Illiad. It is an old story that has elements of legend, fact, etc all mixed together. Generally isn't trustworthy though, and while worth study, only as fictional.

I use 'Myth' to denote something which is an old story. In some cases, whether it is detailing something that actually happened, or a story that is suppose to present a message, isn't completely clear. But it is still presenting a True message, if you will. 'Myth' is something to be studied as true, even if it isn't.

Basically it is from the perspective of the Bible having everything within it having a purpose/being true, without entering into the the discussion about whether some element is true history (like the moon landings).

Examples include early parts of Genesis, and Job, for example. Assumed in this perspective is that the Bible is inspired.

Jon Miller

[ZEE]

the only thing that dosent make sense Jon Miller, is the logic of your last statement... If God HIMSELF didnt write the bible, how can i believe ANY arguments concurring that humans are damned because of a disagreement with the Adam ''Myth''?

piece

[Jon Miller]

If God inspired the Bible, then what is in it is what He meant to have in it. The messages are His messages, the words are His words (as interpreted by the writers).

It is like having an original work written by someone in a foreign language. One person who knows some of that language, attempts to translate it. While the work is still the writer's... the translator has still interpreted it, and has colored the work that you read.

Admitedly, Biblical inpsiration is more complicated than this, but still, that is the basic idea.

If you don't beleive that God inspired the Bible, why do you beleive any of it? Isn't someone rising from the dead pretty far out there?

Jon Miller