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Interestingly enough, now that NY has an ethanol industry, Hillary has been speaking more favorably about ethanol subsidies.
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"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
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When you mentioned that it was published one year before he ran for State Senate.What part was confusing to you?
No one here brought it up until Drake was claiming how terrible a role model Obama would be because of the admission.I still find it meh, but do find it amazing how teh converted see this as a good thing."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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You should take a look at her website. Somehow support for raising the minimum wage, mental health care for seniors and Alzheimers research, AIDS, public health preparedness arent liberal positions?Originally posted by Ramo
Most of the pandering involves speeches rather than legislation. Not really in terms of flip-flopping towards various audiences, but talking about your conservative positions (i.e. condemning video game violence) more than your liberal positions.
And the fact that you think condemning video game violence is a "conservative" position is suggestive. Id wager most african american voters, most women, etc dont think of their concern about video game violence as "conservative". My wife sure doesnt. Theres a difference here between bread and butter social democrat "liberalism" and a focus on essentially civil libertarian and libertarian issues. Hillary has ALWAYS taken a communitarian, politics of meaning approach that offends both right wingers and left secularists. Its hardly a conservative approach though."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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but AFAIK she hasnt voted for any major ones.
Obama has. And he hasnt been around that long, and doesnt have all that many votes cast.
Im not saying Obama is uniquely evil or anything like that. I just dont see him as so different."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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Originally posted by Ramo
No one here brought it up until Drake was claiming how terrible a role model Obama would be because of the admission.
Unless you are going for the OP as "the terrible role model thing" the time line of the posts doesn't support your position.
Personally, I saw the OP as a typical Drake troll with no moral condemnation per se. Merely a snarky attack on Obama and pols in general. A backhanded shot at both Clinton and Bush.
However, it was you in post 20 that first sprang to the Obama is great defense.
Followed by a clarifaiction in post 21 and more praise in post 22.Having the balls to admit that you snorted coke in high school in your own memoir
Only after these OBAMA AHKBAR!!! professions did Drake pipe up with moral condemnation in post 28 in response to your post 20.
I'd have a lot more respect for him if he hadn't admitted it. What are we supposed to tell kids when a Presidential candidate not only isn't ashamed to admit that he used cocaine, but tries to turn his openness about it into a badge of honor? Or, to paraphrase Chris Rock, how do you tell your kid not to get high when the Democratic presidential candidate is happy to tell everyone he snorted coke?
Am I missing something?"Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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Originally posted by Lorizael
You don't know whether or not Obama is God?
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And followed by it by saying it probably had nothing to do with national office ambitions.Originally posted by Ramo
When you mentioned that it was published one year before he ran for State Senate.
Clear now?"Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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not the only oneOriginally posted by Ramo
FTR, I think that ethanol is an example in which Obama was pandering (i.e. he probably realizes it's bad policy, but that's what IL voters demand from him).
"Protecting Illinois' Military Bases
Senator Obama joined with other Illinois members of Congress to protect Illinois' military bases during the 2005 Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC) process. Illinois military bases - such as the Springfield Air National Guard, Rock Island Arsenal, Peoria Air National Guard, and Scott Air Force Base - are critical to protecting the state and the nation.
Unfortunately, despite the efforts of the Illinois delegation, the state will lose some base presence as a result of BRAC. Senator Obama has pledged to continue working with the affected communities to ensure that few jobs are lost and that the schools and communities near the affected bases continue to thrive despite BRAC.
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Im sure Hillary did the same in NY. But Hillary is SUPPOSED to be a cynical pol. I mean we've all seen "Primary Colors" right?
Its kinda like the Obama vs W on coke thing. Obama doesnt claim to have never used drugs.
Well Hillary doesnt claim to be the great cleaner up of American politics. And I for one, find that refreshing."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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"triangulating" is a common strategy among DLC types like Hillary, all pandering and no honest conviction.Originally posted by Ramo
Nearly every candidate panders. Run to their respective wing for the primaries and then run to the center for the general. Hillary's problem is that she thought that the nomination was hers for the taking and never bothered to run to the left. The most prominent example I can think of her pandering is her vote for the Flag Burning Amendment. Most of the pandering involves speeches rather than legislation. Not really in terms of flip-flopping towards various audiences, but talking about your conservative positions (i.e. condemning video game violence) more than your liberal positions.
But I do think that all of her running around is greatly exaggerated.Comment
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The hopeful cynic in me says, "Yes."Originally posted by Lorizael
What I want to know is, is Obama the real deal? Is he actually some new breed of honest politician, or is it all just a really good show?
He's attractive, young, photo- and telegenic, and is a fairly eloquent speaker (I must confess that the "Audacity of Hope" speech at the '04 Democratic Convention blew me away).
He seems to be trying to be as forthright as possible--what we may be seeing here is a new breed of "honest" politician, one who can actually deal with the truth but spin it in a much more palatable fashion to bypass some of the less rigid cynics, one who knows how to put on a show and arrange things to present himself in the best light.
Of course, that could just be my soft spot for him since he's a UChicagoan.B♭3Comment
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Honest politician
Even if he is now... not for long!
Honest politician
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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No.Originally posted by lord of the mark
Jesus christ and general Jackson, I point out that im not rich or famous. Sons of the rich have not particulary needed to study hard for a very long time. Theres a reason its called "a gentleman's C". The Bushes didnt invent that.
Nor is drug use something that shocking anymore.B♭3Comment
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like I said, part of the background noise. It doesnt matter HOW consisten Hillary has been in her policy positions, "hillary the cynic" is her epithet, like Dean the roarer, Kerry the Frenchman, Bush the dumb, McCain the crazy, and Saint Obama.Originally posted by Odin
"triangulating" is a common strategy among DLC types like Hillary, all pandering and no honest conviction.
Oh, and Odin extends it to all DLC types. Evidently if your convictions are in the center, or if you dont see everything in conventional categories, you dont have convictions.
Feh."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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Well that is a common extremist criticism of moderates. You know, the "yellow streak in the middle of the road" thing?
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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Id say that sounds alot more like Bill Clinton (truth here referring only to public policy, not personal matters) than Obama. Clinton won primaries in trade impacted states running on a free trade platform. Is Obama going to? Does he even talk about trade?Originally posted by Q Cubed
The hopeful cynic in me says, "Yes."
He's attractive, young, photo- and telegenic, and is a fairly eloquent speaker (I must confess that the "Audacity of Hope" speech at the '04 Democratic Convention blew me away).
He seems to be trying to be as forthright as possible--what we may be seeing here is a new breed of "honest" politician, one who can actually deal with the truth but spin it in a much more palatable fashion to bypass some of the less rigid cynics, one who knows how to put on a show and arrange things to present himself in the best light.
."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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