Pinochet is Dead!!! 2nd Massive Stroke

[Aro]

Originally posted by lord of the mark



3000, all political opponents of the regime, vs millions, mainly ordinary folks killed for their race.

Note how folks like Chomsky make a big deal about disputing whether the Khmer Rouge actually was responsible for the deaths of over a million Cambodian peasants? Even if they werent, they certainly killed more political opponents than Pinochet did. Somehow in that case folks understand that killing political opponents, while wrong and undemocratic, is not in quite the same category as some other atrocities.

Pol Pot was another mass murder. What’s your point? Are you trying to tell me that there is a moral difference between them?

Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Pinochet… The difference is the scale. Though world champions like Hitler (people talk about 20 million. 6 million of Jews, 2 millions of Gypsies, Soviet soldiers, Poland citizens, many more), or Stalin (7 million, his own people), Pol Pot (3 million, over a population of 7 million) are difficult to beat, and Pinochet look almost an amateur with his 3000 dead (official; I’ve heard about 14000 dead or missed, can you confirm this, Chilean President™?)… But still: He was a mass murderer.
Btw… All of them “political opponents of the regime”?
I seriously doubt. I’ll tell you, I was an adversary of our own dictatorship here in Brazil, I know what I’m talking about. And I was arrested once, not a pleasant time…
But even in that case, I can’t see your point. There’s no reason that justify mass murder. Kill *all* your political opponents is like kill all Jews or Gypsies, it’s some kind of final solution. Btw, I’m from a jewish family (a long story – you don’t have time to hear about it… ).

[Bosh]

So what do you think of a regime that has large number of prisoners die in custody under suspicious circumstances?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4738008.stm

WFT does Iran, the Khmer Rouge, etc. being evil have to do with Pinochet being evil?

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Winston
Get rid of that disgusting avatar of yours, and people might actually try entering into a dialogue with you, and not just chastise you for immaturely idolizing a human monster of incomprehensive proportions.

Hmm....alright.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Bosh
So what do you think of a regime that has large number of prisoners die in custody under suspicious circumstances?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4738008.stm

WFT does Iran, the Khmer Rouge, etc. being evil have to do with Pinochet being evil?

Iran kills political dissidents, just as Pinochet did. The argument about treatment of WOT prisoners is clearly a different issue.

I was just establishing perspective. One poster godwinized, and continues to maintain there was no important difference. Others seem to be making a much bigger deal than when lots of run of the mill dictators die.

And yes, I think if youre really so upset about the deaths of political prisoners, then youd focus on where thats happening now.

[Winston]

Originally posted by Tassi

Hmm....alright.

Thank you.

One shouldn't have to pester you so before you would realise how offensive it was. Still, it's a nice gesture to remove it. For that, I give you the

And now let's return this thread to its original subject.

[Aro]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

............. One poster godwinized, and continues to maintain there was no important difference. ....

Don't be silly, smartass... We were talking about mass murderes. It's almost impossible not to mention Adolf... And Stalin, btw. The world champs.

The important thing is: there's no moral difference between "final solutions", no matter if they killed 3,000 or 3,000,000. (official number of "points" of Pinochet and Pol Pot, respectively).

Edited: 3,000,000-3,000= 2,997,000.

It's an important difference, it's big, it's huge... But not a "moral" difference.

[General Ludd]

The CBC described there being 'thousands' of supporters mourning outside the hospital while "tens of thousands - possibly hundreds of thousands" celebrate in the streets

[Chilean President™]

Originally posted by Aro
... and Pinochet look almost an amateur with his 3000 dead (official; I’ve heard about 14000 dead or missed, can you confirm this, Chilean President™?)…

3.000 is the correct number of killed and dissapeared, but the entire number of tortured + arrested + killed is 30.000 according to the Valech Report received and maded public by former President Ricardo Lagos.


Right now there aren't celebrations for Pinochet's dead, only his supporters mourning outside the Military Academy. I have no picture of the huge line of people, in TV they are saying that nearly 5.000 people are waiting to see Pinochet for the last time. What is being showed on TV kind of reminds me Stalin's funeral.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by lord of the mark



I think youre confusing Sukarno with Suharto.

Indeed I am, they´re close in succession as well as spelling

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Aro




Don't be silly, smartass... We were talking about mass murderes. It's almost impossible not to mention Adolf... And Stalin, btw. The world champs.

The important thing is: there's no moral difference between "final solutions", no matter if they killed 3,000 or 3,000,000. (official number of "points" of Pinochet and Pol Pot, respectively).

Edited: 3,000,000-3,000= 2,997,000.

It's an important difference, it's big, it's huge... But not a "moral" difference.

With all due respect to you, and your experiences in prison, Id say there is. A political activist makes a conscious decision to participate in politics. That entails risks. In most regimes prior to the enlightenment, and in many after it, being a political activist of any kind meant a risk of death. Now democratic, liberal, politics, which understood that the state had to be limited to create a more just, freer society, was a major advance in human civilization. Pinochet, like Castro, like Banzer, like Lenin, like a hundred others, was a retreat from that.

But what Hitler did was to kill not just those who became activists, and made a risky choice. He killed people purely for existing, for the state of their birth. And he did so in numbes large enough to wipe out whole communites, and with the stated goal of eliminating entire peoples. His was a retreat to the very worst in human life. Hitler was morally different from, say, a Franco, just as Stalin was morally different from a Lenin or a Castro.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by Zoid
And Franco, Salazar, Sukarno, Stroessner, Videla, Papadopoulos... they all "saved" their country from communists. Real good role models for a better society!

Like the communists proved to be any better? Apparently leaders can be ****ty, no matter their political ideology. Wow. Revelation of the century! Do I get some sort of Nobel prize?

Gatekeeper

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Chilean President™
Allende wasn't killed, he committed suicide with the AK-47 Castro gave him as a gift, when he took office.

I heard it was by way of three self-inflicted air strikes.

BTW: You forgot to mention that "he committed suicide" as Pinochet's troops were overruing the Presidential Palace.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
BeBro isn't a DL...

He is mine

[BeBMan]

[Zkribbler]

Only BeBro would laff at his own jokes.