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Pinochet is Dead!!! 2nd Massive Stroke

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  • #91
    Originally posted by lord of the mark


    With all due respect to you, and your experiences in prison, Id say there is. A political activist makes a conscious decision to participate in politics. That entails risks. In most regimes prior to the enlightenment, and in many after it, being a political activist of any kind meant a risk of death. Now democratic, liberal, politics, which understood that the state had to be limited to create a more just, freer society, was a major advance in human civilization. Pinochet, like Castro, like Banzer, like Lenin, like a hundred others, was a retreat from that.

    But what Hitler did was to kill not just those who became activists, and made a risky choice. He killed people purely for existing, for the state of their birth. And he did so in numbes large enough to wipe out whole communites, and with the stated goal of eliminating entire peoples. His was a retreat to the very worst in human life. Hitler was morally different from, say, a Franco, just as Stalin was morally different from a Lenin or a Castro.
    Lord of the Mark, you aren't understand. When Pinochet took the power, nobody in there was thinking in risk of life. People were running away from other Latin America countries under dictatorships, to live in Chile. Chile was considered a safe place. Even in the day before that tragedy, almost nobody could imagine something so brutal, in THAT scale. People didn’t know they were in risk. The Chilean military, lead by Pinochet, were extremely cruel. Those days on the National Stadium (?) were incredible, absurd, atrocious, according witnesses. The brutality was.... They killed children, pregnant women, musicians… And did some things even worst.

    In some cases (in Chile and Argentina, by example), they took the children of those man and woman killed, and raised those kids like their own children. Teaching them the code of beliefs of the assassins, teaching them the values that killed their fathers. It’s monstrous.

    Pinochet is different, IMHO, of those little ones…
    Pinochet deserves a special place, together with Stalin, Pol Pot and - please, forgive me by godwinizing- Adolph. The worst thing about “El Generalíssimo” is that a lot of people here are willing to accept his goals, just a little sorry because of his methods…

    He didn’t use gas chambers. He used the National Stadium. Just 3,000 “enemies of the regime”, against 20,000,000 innocent people killed by Hitler.
    Well,“ethnic cleanness” may be a political tool. Hitler had the desire to make an Empire to stand for 1,000 years… He wanted power. Like Augusto. Augusto Pinochet.
    The scale is different, but their little evil hearts not.
    Last edited by Aro; December 11, 2006, 15:05.
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    • #92
      Originally posted by Aro


      Lord of the Mark, you aren't understand. When Pinochet took the power, nobody in there was thinking in risk of life..
      Which is why i was very careful not to say "risk of life as a dissident" or "risk of life under a dictatorship" but the generic risks inherent in being an activist ANYWHERE, even under a regime thats friendly to ones own beliefs.

      The children of the victims were raised with beliefs opposite their parents? Why were the children not killed? Because Pinochet killed individuals for their politics, and thus the apolitical (including, obviously, children) were generally not killed (although as you say, a few children WERE killed by Pinochet) Hitler killed 2 milllion Jewish children. If we accepted your standards than Hitler would be no worse in the memory of Jews, Poles, and Roma than many others in history, who killed Jewish or Polish political activists. By that definition the govt of Iran is as bad as Hitler, Castro is as bad as Stalin. Do you believe that?
      "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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      • #93
        [Hitler is dead]

        [/Hitler is dead]
        "post reported"Winston, on the barricades for freedom of speech
        "I don't like laws all over the world. Doesn't mean I am going to do anything but post about it."Jon Miller

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        • #94
          In some cases (in Chile and Argentina, by example), they took the children of those man and woman killed, and raised those kids like their own children. Teaching them the code of beliefs of the assassins, teaching them the values that killed their fathers. It’s monstrous.
          Actually that didn't happened here... as far as we know... as far as I hope!!!
          >>> El cine se lee en dvdplay <<<

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          • #95
            Originally posted by lord of the mark

            ...... By that definition the govt of Iran is as bad as Hitler, Castro is as bad as Stalin. Do you believe that?
            Gray areas...

            Seriously, it seems to be a waste of time discuss if those s.o.b's are or aren't s.o.b's. They are. They were.

            About Castro, I have some doubts... Not many dounts, but some.
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            • #96
              Originally posted by Gatekeeper


              Like the communists proved to be any better? Apparently leaders can be ****ty, no matter their political ideology. Wow. Revelation of the century! Do I get some sort of Nobel prize?

              Gatekeeper
              No you don´t
              I love being beaten by women - Lorizael

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
                This must be the first victory for communists in at least 20 years. Not much of one in the greater scheme of things, but it will have to do...
                Actually, only 17 since their last:

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Chilean President™


                  Actually that didn't happened here... as far as we know... as far as I hope!!!
                  I'll look for the article I read sometime ago... They talk about Argentina and something very similar in Chile and Uruguay. But I'm not 100% sure. In Argentina this happened, certainly...

                  Those dictatorships were very close in the south cone... They worked together in that infamous operation Condor… Horrible!


                  And I have the same hopes you have…
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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Kuciwalker


                    Actually, only 17 since their last:

                    I'll dance on the day the people who ordered that died as well and unfortunately a lot of them are currently busy to evil things to North Korean refugees (shipping them back to North Korea).
                    Stop Quoting Ben

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                    • Originally posted by lord of the mark


                      The govt of chile was a dictatorship, and a bad one. Its a good thing they never had the nuclear bomb.
                      Chile would have done nothing with nukes that the US hasn't done, or the Soviets did, or the Chinese have done.

                      The only downside of Chile under Pinochet having a nuke would have been nuclear proliferation in SA.
                      If you don't like reality, change it! me
                      "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                      "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                      "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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                      • Chile would have done nothing with nukes that the US hasn't done, or the Soviets did, or the Chinese have done.


                        It's okay when we do it, and the Soviets generally had a decent idea of the stakes.

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                        • Originally posted by Zoid
                          Like the communists proved to be any better? Apparently leaders can be ****ty, no matter their political ideology. Wow. Revelation of the century! Do I get some sort of Nobel prize?


                          No you don´t
                          Those things are overrated, anyway.

                          On a more serious note, there are days I wonder "what might have been," had the United States taken a different path during the Cold War. Instead of backing authoritarian-type rulers in parts of the world in order to contain the power of the Soviets and their allies, what might it have been like had we extended an open hand to Allende, et al.? To show that, hey, while we don't like your domestic policies and whatnot, we do respect the fact that you were elected democratically, and, so far, you're respecting the democracy in return.

                          I guess that's what parallel realities are for. To satisfy all of our "what-ifs."

                          Gatekeeper
                          "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire

                          "Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius

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                          • Well the bastard is dead now... May he rot in hell

                            Dictators
                            When it all comes to it, life is nothing more than saltfish - Salka Valka

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                            • They know who they are.
                              Attached Files
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                              • You're a political cartonist... Is this Santa Claus the president of Brasil? But who's the "kid"?

                                Anyway: english!

                                Nice drawing, though
                                "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
                                I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
                                Middle East!

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