Plane crashes in to NYC building..... dejavu anyone?

[Jaakko]

Osama just called, he said it was his twin brother that flew the plane.

[SlowwHand]

The plane was owned by NY Yankee pitcher Cory Idle, who was killed in the crash.

[Winston]

Originally posted by snoopy369
The BRS should never be deployed in a city. The pilot's first job is to crash in the water or somewhere else where he won't kill anyone other than himself.

Which is why I suggested the logical place to deploy it would be over the East River, where he was immediately prior to the crash. If he actually experienced "mechanical difficulties" as reports claim.

But it wasn't deployed, instead the aircraft took a sharp 90 degree turn to hit the building smack in the center.

I don't see why this theory of a deliberate crash is so alien to most of you. Is it commonplace for planes to accidentally hit buildings in such a bull's eye manner, do you think?

And has anyone bothered to check into the Pirelli Tower crash in Milan in 2002, as I've suggested a couple of times? The pilot inexplicably flew straight into the tower, and from what I've gathered, it is widely regarded as a rather spectacular suicide, mimicking the 9/11 attacks.

So why not this one?

[notyoueither]

Far more pilots are killed when their planes crash due to accident than commit suicide by crash?

[SlowwHand]

They haven't been able to determine if alcohol was involved yet, naturally.

[Winston]

Far more pilots are killed when their planes crash due to accident than commit suicide by crash?

Agreed. But the circumstances surrounding this crash are not very ordinary, I think you will agree.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Winston
A couple more points from Wikipedia,

Lidle's Cirrus was equipped with a Ballistic Recovery System, a parachute designed to bring the whole plane down to earth safely in case of an emergency.

..citing The New York Times.

This recovery system was apparently not deployed, despite the plane flying along the East River immediately prior to the crash, a location one would think logical for such a deployment, if indeed there were serious difficulties in controlling the plane. It dropped off the radar over the East River, near the 59th Street Bridge.

And,

..attracted no special attention from air traffic controllers or NORAD before the crash. The aircraft took a hard 90-degree turn before it hit the building.

.. citing CNN, among others.

A hard 90-degree turn, hmm.. almost as if someone was aiming for something.

http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/cirrus-sr20

In terms of avoiding an accident, one problem with the Cirrus is its unforgiving handling compared to other basic four-seaters. The plane is harder to keep level with rudders in a stall than a Cessna or Diamond; if in a deep uncoordinated stall, the Cirrus wants to drop a wing and go into a spin. Thanks to a "split-airfoil" wing design, in which the inner portion of the wing has a higher angle of attack than the outer portion, the Cirrus gives more of a stall buffet warning than many airplanes. The outer portion of the wings, which are in front of the ailerons, are still flying and permitting the pilot to control roll with the yoke, even as the inner sections of the wings may be stalled and creating a warning buffet. This illustrates one of the advantages of composite construction; you could build a metal wing like this, but it would be very costly. For pilots accustomed to learning about an impending stall by feeling reduced airloads on the flight controls, the Cirrus provides much less stall warning. This is due to spring cartridges that continue to resist flight control movement even when the airplane is not moving. In other words, the flight controls feel similar whether you're flying or stalled.

A pilot with 800 hours in the SR22 noted that in his experience it is not nearly as docile as the Cessna 172 and Piper Arrow that he had trained on. A CFI ("certificated flight instructor") who now flies the $3 million Pilatus PC-12 says "The Cirrus is a plane designed to go fast. You shouldn't be flying it slow. It is trickier to handle in a stall than a 172 or the Pilatus."

Once in a spin the SR20 and SR22 are virtually impossible to recover, according to the test pilots. Remember that spin testing in certification is done with a special tail parachute for breaking the spin that can then be cut away inflight.

So, basically, this plane could stall, because it was going a slow speed, which it is not designed to do.

If it stalls it starts a spiral, or a 90 degree turn, and the pilot would neccesarily know it was stalling.

ACK!

[Winston]

None of us know the truth about this at the moment. While I suspect foul play, I certainly will not rule out the possibility of an accident.

But I'm all the more baffled that so many of you seem completely unwilling to even consider the possibility of a deliberate act of suicide. It's like you've already made up your minds on this and flat out won't hear of any alternative explanations. Despite our having limited knowledge at this point, to say the least, of what really caused it.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Winston

Far more pilots are killed when their planes crash due to accident than commit suicide by crash?

Agreed. But the circumstances surrounding this crash are not very ordinary, I think you will agree.

No crash is ordinary.

They are very uncommon, but when they happen they are 9,999 (to pull a number out of an orifice) to 1 accidents over suicides.

What I will agree with is that it is very poor form to attend a discussion about a tragedy, be it ever so humble or grand, and insist on screaming about the worst, and least likely, case with nothing more than 'it's possible'.

[RGBVideo]

Originally posted by Winston
None of us know the truth about this at the moment. While I suspect foul play, I certainly will not rule out the possibility of an accident. But I'm all the more baffled that so many of you seem completely unwilling to even consider the possibility of a deliberate act of suicide. It's like you've already made up your minds on this and flat out won't hear of any alternative explanations.

hmmmm

Originally posted by Winston
I'm sorry, but people usually don't just accidentally fly into high rise buildings.

And what about the people who died in the apartment building? How about a little sympathy for them, and not just the suicidal celebrity?

Originally posted by Winston
You hit a building like that right in the center, horisontally, and it is no accident. A little common sense will go a long way toward this realisation.

Originally posted by Winston
As I said before, slam dunk center, horisontally, about 3/4 of the way up.

Google Pirelli building, Milan, april 2002 - oh, and WTC, NYC, 7 months prior.

If this was an accident, I'll be the next Pope, or die trying.

[Winston]

Originally posted by VJ
hmmmm

There is no contradiction there, VJ, no matter how much you would like for there to be one. I've made clear what I believe to be the cause of this crash, but I certainly wouldn't rule out anything.

Would you?

[RGBVideo]

There is no contradiction there, VJ, no matter how much you would like for there to be one.

Who was the first person to use the term "contradiction" when talking about Winston's posts above? Yeah, it's the same guy who immediately took offense and started yelling that he wasn't a moron when another person stated that he wuvs the morons of OTF.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Winston


There is no contradiction there, VJ, no matter how much you would like for there to be one.

I've made clear what I believe was the cause of this crash, but I certainly wouldn't rule out anything.

Would you?

The difference being that we would be suprised if it was a suicide, especially with someone else in the plane.

While you would be suprised if it was an accident.

ACK!

[Winston]

notyoueither,

I hope you'll also agree that this is in fact a different kind of tragedy than the one you suggest, if it turns out to be a suicide that deliberately endangered scores of other people in the process.

[notyoueither]

I'll agree that parts of this discussion are tragic.