Plane crashes in to NYC building..... dejavu anyone?

[Winston]

Wouldn't matter much if you were confident you could easily knock him out cold prior to crashing.

And I don't agree that suicide is necessarily the result of a mental illness. It's not considered a "normal" course of action to take, I think we can agree, but you don't have to be mentally ill to take your own life. You could opt out from seeing your professional career and public image starting to fall apart, provided you were not well equipped for dealing with adversity on a personal level. A condition which is not unheard of among top tier professional athletes and celebrities..

[Tingkai]

But why take the risk. What point is served by taking the flight instructor along when he doesn't need to?

Also, professional athletes are better trained at handling pressure and personal adversity than average people. That's particularly true for baseball pitchers who are used to being in the spotlight, and used to being blamed for team losses.

Also, Lidle's career was not falling apart. He had pitched in one game of the playoffs. The Yankees lost that game, but not because of him. The loss was credited to the starting pitcher.

Sorry dude, there is no reason to assume suicide was a factor and many reasons to rule it out.

[Winston]

How do you know he didn't need to have an instructor with him? It's being reported he'd had very limited air time in this type of aircraft.

I didn't say his career was falling apart. I suggested that maybe he perceived that it was starting to do so, along with his public image, due to the prolonged and vitriolic feud with some of his colleagues.

And I have to say I do not agree that professional athletes, or highly exposed celebrities, as a segment of the population are specifically well equipped to deal with personal adversity. Many of them are excellent at dealing with success and positive media exposure, but seem to frequently run into trouble when it starts going the other way. The examples of this are far too many in number to be ignored.

[Tingkai]

No, he did not need an instructor. He was qualified for flying VFR and had 95 hours solo time, not much, but still he could fly solo.

As for your other comments, I take it you're not familiar with baseball.

[Winston]

Correct.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Tingkai
[b]Suicides are typically the result of mental illness.[b] Lidle displayed none. The series was over so the stress of competition was over. There's nothing here that would indicate a desire to commit suicide.

And what reason would he have to kill his flight instructor? If he was planning to commit suicide, he would have flown the plane by himself.

I don´t think so.
I think an equal or higher number of suicides are commited because people were in a desparate situation where they don´t find a way out (for example high debts, or getting harrassed at school or at work and not having other people to speak about it), especially nowadays (whereas perhaps such suicides were less common maybe 100 years ago, because of religious taboos and stronger social support for most individuals)

[Zoid]

Wow, 6 pages of Winston trying to fit a square piece in a round hole...

[Winston]

Wow, I saw the label "Last post by: Zoid", and for a moment there, you had me worried that maybe you'd completely agree with my theory on this.

[RGBVideo]

Originally posted by Winston
If this was an accident, I'll be the next Pope, or die trying.

What were you planning to use as your new name upon becoming one? There aren't too many years left before the current one drops dead, so you start doing something about this...

[Winston]

Hmm, I was thinking maybe Con Paul I.. or was that already taken?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST


I don´t think so.
I think an equal or higher number of suicides are commited because people were in a desparate situation where they don´t find a way out (for example high debts, or getting harrassed at school or at work and not having other people to speak about it), especially nowadays (whereas perhaps such suicides were less common maybe 100 years ago, because of religious taboos and stronger social support for most individuals)

Guess it depends on what you consider a mental illness. I would describe the feeling of being overwhelmed by stress and unable to cope with it as a mental illness.

[Winston]

So, according to your own definition, Lidle showed no signs whatsoever of being overwhelmed by stress or having difficulties coping when he decided to engage in an extremely candid and public row with his former teammates over personal attitude and work commitment?

From what I've read, this guy did not appear to be a fully emotionally balanced person - nor in full control of what was happening to his public image - at the time of his death.

Now, that does not automatically point to a suicide, but to say that there were positively NO reason to assume suicide seems an awful stretch in view of what information we have available at this point.

[Tingkai]

You mean the comment a couple of months ago that the Phillies were not committed to winning? That's hardly an "extremely candid and public row." It's an off the cuff line that people in the news say all the time.

And based on that single comment you think he's suicidal. Come on, that's nuts.

And what exactly was happening to his public image that was so terrible. He pitched in one playoff game. Didn't do great, but wasn't attributed with the loss. That's hardly earth shattering.

Ya got nothing.

Lidle showed no signs of being overwhelmed by stress. He's a friggen major league pitcher. These guys thrive on stress. If he couldn't handle it, he wouldn't have been in the majors for so many years.

[Winston]

All sorts of personal accusations were flying back and forth between him and his ex-teammates. And he didn't seem to be regarded with just love and admiration among members of his new side. This is what I was thinking of in referring to his public image starting to deteriorate, not his playing performance.

...

Oh will you shut up, Winston!

There.

[Tingkai]

As far as I can see, it was a minor comment and the only people who got upset were the players in Philly.

It's not a big deal. It would have no impact on his public image, let alone harm it. He's a Yankee. He's expected to be arrogant.