Explain to me why MY life is worth living?

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by civman2000

Do you have any personal experience with depression?

Am i human?

[Lorizael]

I think a better question aimed at you might be, upon what grounds do you base all of your wild and innacurate proclamations about a complex aspect of the human condition?

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by Lorizael
I think a better question aimed at you might be, upon what grounds do you base all of your wild and innacurate proclamations about a complex aspect of the human condition?

I reject the terms wild, and inaccurate.


To answer the bad faith question, sans the wild and inaccurate; Life experience.
Which in so many ways is better than pharmaceutical companies and kids in college doing studies.


Anyone want to dispute that prozac and zolaft are not mind altering substances? Is this wild and/or inaccurate?

What about the fact that pain is an important part of life? Is this wild and/or inaccurate?

What about teenage angst many times being misdiagnosed by parents as depression? Is this wild and/or inaccurate?

What about "depression" being part of the human condition, and a vast majority of people go through extended periods of depression, during their lives, some for months, some for years. Is this wild and/or inaccurate?

[civman2000]

What about teenage angst many times being misdiagnosed by parents as depression? Is this wild and/or inaccurate?

There's a difference between depression being diagnosed by parents and depression being diagnosed by doctors...are you denying the validity of the latter?

[Japher]

What about the fact that pain is an important part of life? Is this wild and/or inaccurate?

What about teenage angst many times being misdiagnosed by parents as depression? Is this wild and/or inaccurate?

What about "depression" being part of the human condition, and a vast majority of people go through extended periods of depression, during their lives, some for months, some for years. Is this wild and/or inaccurate?

The main problem isn't the drug, it's that many people see the drug as a treatment or a cure when it is really just a suppliment while the treatment is being administered.

If you have a headache you take Tylenol so that you are comfortable while your body is able to combat the real problem; dehydration, stress, etc.

Same with Prozac, you take it so that you can better address the problems that cause depressiong. People don't do this however.

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by civman2000

There's a difference between depression being diagnosed by parents and depression being diagnosed by doctors...are you denying the validity of the latter?

Yup. My girlfriend was diagnosed by several doctors as having bipolar disorder.

and 'twas bull****.

And 'twasn't the only time I am sure a doctor has misdiagnosed depression, or ADHD, or any other drug 'em up and shut 'em up "psychological disease" in the new pharma backed market today.

I have a lot more experience, including my own bouts with depression. I just didn't use expensive and dangerous drugs to cure myself.

Instead, I internalized, and reflected upon who I was, and made changes accordingly.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by NeOmega
Life experience.
Which in so many ways is better than pharmaceutical companies and kids in college doing studies.

Most people seem to think the things they do are better than the things that other people do. Unfortunately, they can't all be right.

My cousin had cancer. Sucked pretty bad. This was a definite life experience for him. You know what he knows about cancer now? Jack ****. You know who does know about cancer? The doctors that treated him. The doctors that studied for years and years and years so that they would know what to do with him. I'm very ****ing glad these doctors went to school to cure him, rather than relying on life experience.

My father had a heart attack. Sucked pretty bad. This was a definite life experience for him. You know what he knows about heart attacks/heart disease now? Jack ****. I'll give you three guesses to figure out who does know about heart disease though!

Anyone want to dispute that prozac and zolaft are not mind altering substances? Is this wild and/or inaccurate?

No, but I'll dispute that mind altering is necessarily a bad thing, if you're making that claim as well. While a lot of anti-depressants are probably prescribed a little too freely, these drugs have still been studied and researched and refined a great deal, so that these drugs do, in fact, alter the mind the way we want them to.

What about the fact that pain is an important part of life? Is this wild and/or inaccurate?

You're right, that's not wild or innacurate; it's an empty platitude. But I'll go with it anyways. You say pain is an important part of life. Okay.

Well, to me, that means that we as the human species, seeing that it is an important part life, should devote a considerable amount of our resources towards exploring, investigating, and understanding what pain is and what it has to do with being human.

This is what humans do with everything else they encounter. This is what separates us from everything else. We try to figure things out. We try to know things.

And don't you think that the thousands of scientists and researchers all throughout the world that study and dissect and exerpiment with pain might be a pretty good example of this? We come up with solutions for pain, and maybe that's not such a good idea, maybe that's not what we should be doing with pain, but don't you think that's better than trying to... tough it out? learn to live with it? no pain no gain?

Shouldn't we actually try to understand this vital part out of existence, rather than just accept it?

What about teenage angst many times being misdiagnosed by parents as depression? Is this wild and/or inaccurate?

No, but it is wild and innacurate to claim that the two things aren't related. Many, many studies by the aforementioned scientists and researchers have shown distinct similarities between depression and whatever you choose to call what teenagers go through.

What about "depression" being part of the human condition, and a vast majority of people go through extended periods of depression, during their lives, some for months, some for years. Is this wild and/or inaccurate?

See my rant about understanding the human condition, as opposed to ignoring it.

[Meticulous Man]

@ NeOmega

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by Lorizael
My cousin had cancer.

My father had a heart attack.

Yup, and those are physical illnesses, with physical symptoms, such as growths or scarring of the arteries, and are diagnosed with eqipment that can see these, not self filled out questionairres about how bad your life is, or on a rating scale fo 1-10 how would you rate your happiness.

(BTW, my Gf's brother got cancer at 18.... had been on anti-depressants since 12, and lots of other illegal drugs from 17-18, YOu can cite studies were wierd ass hormones don't cause cancer... and then I'll tell you how filterless camels tickle the throat better, and have been found by doctors to help your lungs)

No, but I'll dispute that mind altering is necessarily a bad thing, if you're making that claim as well. While a lot of anti-depressants are probably prescribed a little too freely, these drugs have still been studied and researched and refined a great deal, so that these drugs do, in fact, alter the mind the way we want them to.

Do they? Or do they just mask the pain of a person who is creating an environment in which depression fosters? The person feels no pain, and merrily goes on their way, not bothering to change.

What about the fact that pain is an important part of life? Is this wild and/or inaccurate?

We come up with solutions for pain, and maybe that's not such a good idea, maybe that's not what we should be doing with pain, but don't you think that's better than trying to... tough it out? learn to live with it? no pain no gain?

No. Pain causes lessons. Lessons create knwoledge, knowledge creates growth.

Shouldn't we actually try to understand this vital part out of existence, rather than just accept it?

Sure, we should try to understand it, and use it to our advantage, not eradicate it.

No, but it is wild and innacurate to claim that the two things aren't related. Many, many studies by the aforementioned scientists and researchers have shown distinct similarities between depression and whatever you choose to call what teenagers go through.

as you know, psychological studies always put way too much stock in the responses of the subjects. This surely sets them apart from actual medical maladies.



the current environment of "it's a disease" totally vitimizes the depressed. Instead of letting them know that they are in control, and that they can change the path they are on, it tells them a pill will solve their problems, and if it doesn't they just need to find the right one. I have heard this way too many times from people who discuss their medications.

[Lorizael]

Now it's obvious to me that you've done a great deal of research into this matter, and that you have a well rounded and informed opinion. You've been in the laboratories and gone to school and all that stuff that scientists do, of course, but perhaps I can offer a little bit of information for you.

Research has shown that the brains of whiny sad people are different from the brains of upstanding citizens. Now I don't know why this would be; I'm not a scientist or a doctor. But maybe, just maybe, this might be significant in some way! Who knows, maybe it means that that whacky depression thing might be something that requires the attention of people who treat diseases and disorders and other bad things that happen to people. Whatever. Crazy idea. I don't know.

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by Lorizael
Research has shown that the brains of whiny sad people are different from the brains of upstanding citizens. Now I don't know why this would be; I'm not a scientist or a doctor. But maybe, just maybe, this might be significant in some way!

Maybe it means there is a ghost in the machine. Maybe it means that we are more than just a series of tubes and chemicals. Maybe it means western medicine cannot solve everything.

[Lorizael]

Sometimes on Apolyton I encounter someone that I know I can have a good discussion with. Maybe we won't change our opinions on the subject at hand, but I know that we're at least going to learn something from each other, and that it will have been worth the time.

This is obviously not one of those times.

I refer to my previous statement.

Wild and innacurate.

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by Lorizael
Wild and innacurate.

Is claiming that western medicine cannot solve everything wild and/or inaccurate?

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by Lorizael
Sometimes on Apolyton I encounter someone that I know I can have a good discussion with. And then I drench the conversation in sarcasm when i cannot provide any real facts or good counterpoints, and think that someone doesn't notice a couple of posts back

Uh, huh, but I did notice, too wiwy fo you, wascawy neomega!

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Lorizael

Research has shown that the brains of whiny sad people are different from the brains of upstanding citizens.

Eh, correlation and causation are two different things.

I don't necessarily agree with Neomega but if he is right, perhaps the personal choices regarding one's environment, illogical assumptions about the future, refusing to accept that life is unfair, etc. all gradually alter brain structure.