Questions about the Bible , I ask as I read

[Jon Miller]

It means that Jesus can save those who don't know of him also.

Christ saved you (and everyone else) before you were born. All it takes is accepting that gift.

Generally that gift is accepted by becoming a Christian. Not neccessarily though, there are many who have never really had the chance to be Christian.

If Christ has saved us before we are born, then the question is just in how to accept that gift.

JM
(it is definitely true that Beleive in Him and you will be saved)
(Beleiving means more then just saying that Jesus exists or something.. it means Beleiving in Him, similiar to how some would beleive in Michael Jordan (during a basketball game))

[Lorizael]

Sometimes I wish I had faith. Christian theology is so cool. Wish I could be a part of it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
It means that Jesus can save those who don't know of him also.

Christ saved you (and everyone else) before you were born. All it takes is accepting that gift.

Generally that gift is accepted by becoming a Christian. Not neccessarily though, there are many who have never really had the chance to be Christian.

If Christ has saved us before we are born, then the question is just in how to accept that gift.

JM
(it is definitely true that Beleive in Him and you will be saved)
(Beleiving means more then just saying that Jesus exists or something.. it means Beleiving in Him, similiar to how some would beleive in Michael Jordan (during a basketball game))

But if you were both after Christ was around, then you have had the chance of "accepting his gift" and refused. That means you are damned? Even if you are one of the chosen people?

[Jon Miller]

Hmm, the Bible makes it clear that the Chosen people can reject God. This happens many many times in the OT.

People who were born before Christ also had a chance to accept His gift. See for example Abraham (and read Hebrews).

Jon Miller

[Imran Siddiqui]

But yet... they are chosen. That doesn't mean anything?

[Jon Miller]

It does. In particularly in the OT. It means that they were given the information about God. They had a lot more chance then most to follow God. They had God working for them, taking care of them.

Read about how they are chosen and what chosen means, read Genesis and Exodus.

Currently, Christianity has more information available then Judaism (sadly it isn't always used).

peace,
Jon Miller
(don't give me, the I am disrespecting Judaism point, if I didn't think Christianity had more information then Judaism, I would become a Jew (which is possible))

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Lorizael
Sometimes I wish I had faith. Christian theology is so cool. Wish I could be a part of it.

I find it pretty boring actually.

Mythology ftw

[Jon Miller]

Some SDAs theology goes into real depth about how Christ is our high priest in the heavenly sanctuary, and how that is what the earthly one (that the Jews had in OT time) was a precursor to it or the like.

I admit I don't understand (nor have spent much time thinking about) that part of SDA theology.

Jon Miller
(honestly, there are a fair number of SDAs who after a time leave the church and start worshiping with the Jews)

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well, I'd imagine if my group was 'chosen', I'd expect God to live up to his bargain and his bargain didn't include listen to some hippie rabbi claiming to be the Son of God

[Arrian]

Goddamn hippies![/Cartman]

-Arrian

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Well, I'd imagine if my group was 'chosen', I'd expect God to live up to his bargain and his bargain didn't include listen to some hippie rabbi claiming to be the Son of God

Thus why Judaism and Christianity are two seperate religions.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, but Christians (at least some of them) still consider Jews to be the 'chosen people'. There lies the rub.

[Robert]

What rub? I believe the Jews are the chosen people of God. Where people = nation-people. As a group God has chosen them to bring salvation to the world.

Christianity can't give all answers. Reading the Bible does come with questions. Christianity doesn't claim to know all answers.

But in the end christianity is the most beautifull religion in the world. It's the only faith where not the winner takes all. Where only those who are brave or saints can be save. That only those who are the best will be saved. But it's the worst religion as well, because it's the hardest thing for a man to accept that he's broken and corruped.

Humans would rather achive things themselves. Think good of themselves. Thing that they can reach the best through their own good way of living. Humans believe that they can seperate good from evil. Christianity counters that.

Christianity = don't believe in yourself, reject yourself and have faith in Jesus.

Nietsche hated christianity because he thought it was a religion of weakness. He hated the christian Jesus because he thought Jesus was a loser. (though he believed that the real Jesus was different)

Despite that he was terrified to live in a world where we would only have faith in ourselves. In "So said Zarathustra" it is the 'fool' who blaims the people for killing (the imagination) of God.

A world that has lost it's faith in God will only have faith in mankind. In the end that's what brought us all evil. It's those religious fundamentalistics who believed that they themselve can bring eternal peace who do the damage. Not those who believe that not we but God will bring eternal peace.

Stalin, Hitler, Mao were people who thought that they themselves could establish the perfect world. But in the end it counts for all leaders, people in the world. If we try to do good, we still do evil.

If there are 100 people there are 100 opinions on what is good and what is evil. And still we humans think that we can decide ourselves on what is good and what is evil. We can't even agree with each other. And still on some subject everyone claims to be right. And still we say "mind your own business" if someone tries to talk with us about something. "It's my life". "I'm my own God, I will rule my own life, I will make my own rules."

That's what life is about. And in the opinion of christianity there is no difference between an atheist who thinks that he can live the perfect life by believing in himself or a muslim fundamentalist who thinks that he can deserve the goodness of Allah by living a good life and dying for Allah. Fundamentalism brings burqua's and women surpression. Liberalism brings red light districts and modern-women slavery.
Fundamentalism results in girls who can't to school. Liberalism brings girls who can't go to school either because they're aborted.

And still there is no easy answer. Why no abortion after rape? I don't know, mayber it should be possible after rape. Maybe it should be possible if a family is too big. Or if the parents are only teenagers. But in the end there is no right answer. I don't know the right answer. I can try and I must try, for I'm a citizen of earth. And burqua's are not the answer neither are red light districts. Though I'd rather have a horny man visit a hooker then that he rapes a girl. But I prefer it that a woman sees the daylight.

Do you know the right answers? To everything? To the origin of life? The path to peace? Freedom to everyone? Can you lead us into a world without pain? I applaude you! But I don't trust you, since you are human and I'm sure that you have done pain to people and yourself, and you will continue to do pain to others and yourself. No matter if you want to or not.

I'm a christian, which means that I follow Jesus, since I have faith in Him and only in Him. I'm sorry that I still do stupid things. That my brothers in my faith yell at funerals of gays, that my brothers blow abortion clinics up. That I yell at people if they anger me. I'm still a foolish man and I still do things wrong, and so do other christians. But we try to follow Jesus. Who's maybe the only person that lived about who everybody, Hindu's, Christians, Muslims, Humanists, Sociolists, Liberalists, agree that he was a good man.

Even Ghandi, perhaps the 2nd person in the line of best men ever, says about himself that he does wrong while he wants to do good.

Ghandi said as well that he would be a christian if not only for the christians. I'd say, be a christian, despite of the christians. We are not better. We never were and we never will be.

No, that's not true. We will be better people, from the day on that God has re-made this world. And I hope that all of you will be a part of it!

[Spiffor]

A world that has lost it's faith in God will only have faith in mankind. In the end that's what brought us all evil.

[Imran Siddiqui]

What rub? I believe the Jews are the chosen people of God. Where people = nation-people. As a group God has chosen them to bring salvation to the world.

Christianity can't give all answers. Reading the Bible does come with questions. Christianity doesn't claim to know all answers.

The rub being that some Christians (a lot of them in fact) believe that you can only be saved through Jesus Christ. Now that reads to me that you must believe in Yeshua of Nazereth as the Messiah or else you won't get saved. But what of the Jews, the chosen people of God, who reject him? They are the chosen people, yet they do not believe the Messiah has come. THAT is where 'the rub' lies. As I've found out, it seems different versions of Christianity have different answers.

And in the opinion of christianity there is no difference between an atheist who thinks that he can live the perfect life by believing in himself or a muslim fundamentalist who thinks that he can deserve the goodness of Allah by living a good life and dying for Allah.

I believe you must speak for yourself, not Christianity. Jon Miller, for one, I think would disagree with you, and I have no doubt of his faith.

A world that has lost it's faith in God will only have faith in mankind. In the end that's what brought us all evil. It's those religious fundamentalistics who believed that they themselve can bring eternal peace who do the damage.

I'll echo Spiffor:

There have been many with faith in God who have caused much evil. Fundamentalists HAVE faith in God and see themselves as instruments of God. They don't think they, themselves, are bringing eternal peace, but that they are doing God's work and God is working through them (not unlike Calvinist views that God works through the believer in his profession).

For instance, Jerry Falwell has faith in God, yet he dabbles in hatred. He is not a force for good.

There have been plenty who have faith in mankind who have done much good as well. To cast them aside betrays a horrid bias. It is faith in mankind that brought us the Enlightenment, one of greatest 'events' in the history of the human race.