War!

[Ned]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Imran, Bush a conservative?

Yes. Moderate Republicans never liked him at all. So obviously he had to be put into power (and kept there) by the Conservatives. So he's with them, no matter how much they want to spin it now.

People will take their frustration with this man out on the Republican Party in general this November. That will be a travesty.

Why? The party deserves it. People are pissed about Iraq and the conservatives have been most supportive of such war. That's why his approval rating is in the toilet. Not the Medicare perscription drug program or steel tariffs.

Bull. The approval rating slide with the Right began with Harriet Miers. The left has been against the war for years now.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

so what does the druggie have to say now? i wonder what pills he was poppin this morning.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Ned
Bull. The approval rating slide with the Right began with Harriet Miers. The left has been against the war for years now.

Believe what you want Ned, but look at the approval rating for the Iraq war and see how it matches Bush's approval rating.

It's the war. You are right in that the (far) left has been against the war for years. But now the moderate left is, and the true moderates are, and even moderate right wingers are. The only true believers in the war are the far right wackjobs like Limbaugh.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


However, this is your 'racist'

A man of color can't be racist?

What planet are you from Ben?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui




Believe what you want Ned, but look at the approval rating for the Iraq war and see how it matches Bush's approval rating.

It's the war. You are right in that the (far) left has been against the war for years. But now the moderate left is, and the true moderates are, and even moderate right wingers are. The only true believers in the war are the far right wackjobs like Limbaugh.

If this is true, you could link a chart.

However, what I say corresponds to my memory of when his dramatic slide from 50% to 35% began.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Ned
If this is true, you could link a chart.

However, what I say corresponds to my memory of when his dramatic slide from 50% to 35% began.

'dramatic' slide?

Here is Fox news approval ratings for President Bush from Jan 2003:

Approve

Disapprove

Unsure
.
5/16-18/06 35 56 8
5/2-3/06 38 53 9
4/18-19/06 33 57 10
4/4-5/06 36 53 10
3/14-15/06 39 51 11
2/28 - 3/1/06 39 54 7
2/7-8/06 44 47 9
1/24-25/06 41 51 8
1/10-11/06 42 49 9
12/13-14/05 42 51 7
11/29-30/05 42 48 10
11/8-9/05 36 53 11
10/25-26/05 41 51 8
10/11-12/05 40 51 9
9/27-28/05 45 47 8
9/13-14/05 41 51 8
8/30-31/05 45 50 5
7/26-27/05 47 44 9
7/12-13/05 47 47 6
6/14-15/05 48 43 9
4/25-26/05 47 43 10
3/29-30/05 49 46 5
3/1-2/05 52 39 9
2/8-9/05 51 43 7
1/25-26/05 50 40 10
1/11-12/05 52 41 7
12/14-15/04 48 45 7
11/16-17/04 53 40 7
10/30-31/04 47 46 7
10/29-30/04 47 47 6
10/28-29/04 47 47 6
10/27-28/04 48 47 5
10/17-18/04 LV 49 44 7
10/3-4/04 LV 53 43 4
9/21-22/04 LV 50 45 5
9/7-8/04 LV 49 44 7
8/24-25/04 LV 51 43 6
8/3-4/04 44 48 8
7/20-21/04 47 45 8
6/22-23/04 49 44 7
6/8-9/04 48 45 7
5/18-19/04 48 43 9
5/4-5/04 49 43 8
4/21-22/04 50 44 6
4/6-7/04 49 44 7
3/23-24/04 47 44 9
3/3-4/04 48 44 8
2/18-19/04 48 41 11
2/4-5/04 53 41 6
1/21-22/04 53 39 8
1/7-8/04 58 31 11
12/3-4/03 52 34 14
11/18-19/03 52 41 7
10/28-29/03 53 37 10
10/14-15/03 52 37 11
9/23-24/03 50 40 10
9/9-10/03 58 33 9
8/12-13/03 57 34 9
7/29-30/03 59 31 10
7/15-16/03 59 32 9
6/30 - 7/1/03 60 27 13
6/17-18/03 65 25 10
6/3-4/03 66 26 8
5/20-21/03 64 26 10
5/6-7/03 65 24 11
4/22-23/03 65 25 10
4/8-9/03 71 20 9
3/25-26/03 66 24 10
3/11-12/03 60 32 8
2/25-26/03 55 33 12
2/11-12/03 57 32 11
1/29-30/03 59 28 13
1/14-15/03 63 28 9

http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob1.htm

Seems like a very gradual slide to me

This is the ABC news/Washington Post polling on support for Bush's handling of Iraq from mid 2003:



5/11-15/06
32 66 1
4/6-9/06 37 62 1
3/2-5/06 40 59 -


1/23-26/06
39 60 1


12/15-18/05
46 53 1


10/30 - 11/2/05
36 64 1


9/8-11/05
38 62 1


8/25-28/05
42 57 1


6/23-26/05
43 56 1


6/2-5/05
41 58 1


4/21-24/05
42 56 2


3/10-13/05
39 57 4


1/12-16/05
40 58 2


12/16-19/04
42 57 1


9/23-26/04 RV
47 50 3


8/26-29/04 RV
47 51 2


7/22-25/04
45 53 2
6/17-20/04 44 55 2
5/20-23/04 40 58 2
4/15-18/04 45 54 1
3/4-7/04 46 53 1
2/10-11/04 47 52 1
1/15-18/04 55 42 2
12/18-21/03 60 39 2
12/14/03 58 38 4
11/12-16/03 48 48 4
10/26-29/03 47 51 2
10/9-13/03 51 47 2
9/26-29/03 50 47 3
9/10-13/03 52 46 2
9/4-7/03 49 47 4
8/20-24/03 56 37 7
7/9-10/03 58 41 2
6/18-22/03 67 30 2
4/27-30/03 75 22 2

http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

Seems to have a relatively gradual slide as well.

I know they are a bit messed up but the links are there.

[Ned]

Imran, I see a five point drop for both Katrina, early Sept., and for Miers, November. There was another major drop at the end of February, which corresponds to gas prices getting way out of t control.

[Zkribbler]

Re: War!

Originally posted by Ned
...But the main point here is the war between Bush, McCain, Hegel and the like against conservatives like Limbaugh.

Think so? I've always perceived it as a battle between economic conservative (who want cheap labor) vs. social conservatives (who want law & order and traditonal AngloAmierican culture).

[Lancer]

The right will self destruct until the success of the left forces them to unite. It's the way these things always go and both sides do it starting as soon as they attain success.

[Ben Kenobi]

Think so? I've always perceived it as a battle between economic conservative (who want cheap labor) vs. social conservatives (who want law & order and traditonal AngloAmierican culture).

So where do I fit? I like freer immigration.

[Ben Kenobi]

A man of color can't be racist?

What planet are you from Ben?

You calling him an uncle tom?

I think its rather silly to be playing the race card in the first place. It's just hilarious to see the race card played against a 'man of colour'.

[Elok]

Good God, y'all! What's this thread good for? Absolutely nothing, that's what. And I'll say it again if I have to.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Oerdin
That's a joke, right?

Even if true how does that prove Ben's contention that illegals get special privlages which citizens don't or Sloww's contention that illegals chose to be illegal dispite having so many chances to become legal?

BECAUSE THEY TOOK MA JOB

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

However, this is your 'racist'

You don't seriously imply that only white people can be racist, do you??

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Re: Re: War!

Originally posted by Zkribbler


Think so? I've always perceived it as a battle between economic conservative (who want cheap labor) vs. social conservatives (who want law & order and traditonal AngloAmierican culture).

This is exactly right. Ned's basic assumption is wrong (try to contain your shock) because he posits "conservative" as a monolith.

Dial it back 100 years, Ned: free market advocates and anti-immigration advocates were on opposite sides of the political fence; anti-immigration advocates also tended to be pro-union and pro-tarrif -- stances which, whatever their merits, at least have the virtue of consistancy.

The GOP has built their contemporary base by uniting fiscal conservatives with social conservatives, on the premise that they're all "conservative." This has a huge built-in fault line, which is now being exposed. This is not conservative versus moderate and, to the extent that its a war over Bush, it's a war in which each type of conservative is balming Bush on the other. Bush, for his part, has posed as both types of conservatives while failing to deliver anything to either one, so each camp certainly has a bone to pick with him.

(For what its worth: the same problems can be found among Democratic "liberals," who are also not a monolith; this battle is exposing the fault lines in the coalition between paleo-liberals, who tend to be protectionist and pro-union, and -- for want of a better word -- progressives, who tend to place international issues and concerns ahead of national interest. But since the Dems are out of power, this is getting less attention.)

What you're looking at, Ned, is something far more interesting that what you originally described. It's not a war between conservatives and moderates. It's a war to define conservativism.