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  • War!

    According to the NY Times and Limbaugh, in different terms of course, the current battle over the Immigration bill is all about

    1) "blue blooded" country club Republicans trying to sieze control of the party from conservatives;

    2) the Democrats trying to expand their "victim" base;

    3) both the "blue bloods" and the Dems trying to expand immigration, not ****** it; and

    4) granting "illegals" all sorts of rights that Americans do not have.

    But the main point here is the war between Bush, McCain, Hegel and the like against conservatives like Limbaugh. You are seeing the a battle that lay dormant since the landslide elections of Ronald Reagan. But Bush and his crew are out for blood, blue blood it seems.

    Here are a few snippets from Limbaugh:

    " I think what's happening here, in addition to all that I've said, is that moderate Republicans are trying to destroy conservatives and conservatism. By moderate Republicans, let me give you some names: John McCain, Arlen Specter. We'd have to throw Senator Lindsey Graham in there now, and some of the Republicans in the administration, some of the Republicans in the White House. I think they have been steaming over the conservative wing taking over the Republican Party. The elites in the Republican Party we've heard from on this debate, and they are trashing all of you as a bunch of unsophisticated boobs.

    Me, too, and I think there's a battle for the heart and soul of the Republican Party going on right now, and the conservatives who are largely the majority membership of that party are under assault. I think that it is perfectly clear, at least to me, that that's what's happening. You can look at this this way. Let me make it easy. We're back to 1976. This is Ronald Reagan versus Gerald Ford. This is Barry Goldwater versus Nelson Rockefeller. This is the compassionate conservative Republicans -- i.e., the moderates -- versus the conservatives. That's all tied into this. There's so many things being done here at once, and this whole immigration bill is simply a rubric to disguise the true intent. "

    Rush Limbaugh, America's Anchorman and Doctor of Democracy, is known as the pioneer of AM radio. Limbaugh revolutionized the media and political landscape with his unprecedented combination o f serious discussion of political, cultural and social issues along with satirical and biting humor.
    http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

  • #2
    What would Rush make of me?

    I'm in favour of fewer immigration restrictions, and yet in most everything else, they'd put me dead centre with the 'conservatives' within the Republican party.

    I think the Republican party is very divided over this issue and always has been, similar to the isolationists and the interventionists with respect to foreign policy.

    I don't see the rationale behind pegging the disaffection to one group of people ie, the 'blue bloods' of the party.
    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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    • #3
      It's not that illegals can't be legal, if they desired. They could. Rather not. Why not? Absolutely no obligations. No added value to anything here.
      Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
      "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
      He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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      • #4
        Don't know about that. I'd be one of the folks more then happy to take on the obligations in the US, and I'm sure there are a few other folks who feel the same.
        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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        • #5
          Why is it you always post a thread on what ever Rush Limbaugh spins that day? Don't you ever think for yourself?
          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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          • #6
            I do know about it first hand, and I'm not singling out Mexico. Talking all the south, from my perspective. What I see. Statistics where I live.
            Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
            "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
            He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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            • #7
              Yeah I don't think the Texas folks are much concerned about Canadian immigrants.
              Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
              "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
              2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

              Comment


              • #8
                Oklahoma, now they ARE a concern.
                Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: War!

                  Originally posted by Ned

                  4) granting "illegals" all sorts of rights that Americans do not have.
                  such as?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    BTW this just all sounds like the latest lame attempt by the Republicans to try to energize their base at a time when 71% of their party rank and file hate them and likely won't show up to the next election. Last election cycle the Republicans did the exact same thing. Most Republican voters didn't like Bush or the current corrupt Congress but the party elders whipped them into a frenzy with claims that gays were out to destroy marriage and rape their little children.

                    Replace gays with Mexicans and you have this year's Republican attempts to fear monger people into voting for them dispite the fact that Republican control of government has been an absolute failure.
                    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                    • #11
                      There was a darn good article on this by Thomas Sowell.

                      It made me stop and think hard about what he had to say.

                      Townhall is the premier destination for conservative news, opinion, cartoons, podcasts, and videos. Get expert commentary, in-depth analysis, and top stories shaping American politics today. Edited by Katie Pavlich


                      Some people are worried that amnesty will give illegal aliens the same rights that American citizens have. In reality, it will give the illegals more rights than the average American citizen.

                      Since most of the illegals are Mexican, that makes them a minority. Under affirmative action, combined with amnesty, they would have preferences in jobs and other benefits.

                      Those who set up their own businesses would be entitled to preferences in getting government contracts. Their children would be able to get into college ahead of the children of American citizens with better academic qualifications.


                      Illegals who graduate from a high school in California can already attend the
                      University of California, paying lower tuition that an American citizen from neighboring Oregon.

                      Under the supposedly "tough" immigration bill in the U.S. Senate, illegals don't have to pay all the back taxes they owe. An American citizen gets no such break from the government and can end up in federal prison, like Al Capone.

                      If an American citizen gets stopped by the police for a traffic violation and the cops discover that he is wanted for some other violation of the law, they can arrest him for whatever else he has done.

                      But if an illegal alien gets stopped for going through a red light and the police discovers that he is in the country illegally, in many communities the cop is forbidden to arrest him for that -- or even to report him to the feds.

                      If an American citizen forges a Social Security card in order to get a job, he can be arrested. Under a provision recently passed by the Senate, illegal aliens who forged Social Security cards not only get a pass, they get to collect Social Security benefits.

                      The great majority of Senators who voted for that provision were Democrats, and they prevailed because they were joined by a small minority of Republicans, led by -- surprise! -- Senator John McCain. After similar defections on judges and free speech, Senator McCain may give opportunism a bad name.

                      What the immigration bill in the Senate has become is just another attempt to pander to another special interest, in disregard of how that affects the country as a whole.
                      Much is made of the fact that there are supposedly 12 million illegals in the country already. The last time illegal aliens were given amnesty, back in 1986, that led to even more illegal aliens coming in afterwards.

                      Do we want 20 million or 30 million more illegal aliens in the future? Do we want to change the very composition of the American population, and with it the values of the country?

                      There was a time when immigrants came here to become Americans. But there are powerful pressure groups in this country, extending far beyond the immigrant community, doing their best to keep foreigners foreign and force Americans to accommodate their foreign language and culture in the name of "multiculturalism."

                      We have seen what havoc such notions and practices have created after mass immigration under "guest worker" programs in Europe, especially after the Muslim riots in France. Do we want that in the United States?


                      Most of the first generation of immigrants may want nothing more than a chance to work and will be happy to be here instead of in Mexico. But second generations born in this country compare their situation not with the situation in Mexico but with what other Americans around them have.


                      There are plenty of people, both inside and outside the immigrant community, who will fan their sense of grievance and exploit their resentments. This is not peculiar to people from Mexico. Europe has already experienced this.


                      Both the facts of the past and the dangers of the future are being ignored in the rush to give immediate benefits to illegal aliens, washed down with much talk about border control but no requirement that the border actually be controlled before these benefits go into effect.


                      The political strategy of this package deal legislation is to give immediate and irrevocable special benefits to some and make pious promises about the future to get all this past the others.
                      Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                      "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                      2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SlowwHand
                        It's not that illegals can't be legal, if they desired. They could. Rather not. Why not? Absolutely no obligations. No added value to anything here.
                        Become educated on this issue then we can debate. If you knew the facts then you'd know that there are a grand total of 5,000 slots world wide for immigrants who are classified as unskilled or low skilled. The US only legally allows a grand total of 5,000 per year from the entire world. That's it.

                        The only other way unskilleds can legally enter the US is via a family reuniting visa (meaning a man brings in a wife, parent, child, or sibling) or by going through one of the periodic legalization programs offered to illegal aliens. The US requires a lot more cheap labor then just 5,000 per year which is why employers hire illegals and why illegals come here. Let's fix the laws to reflect reality and then enforce the new laws.
                        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                        • #13
                          that moderate Republicans are trying to destroy conservatives and conservatism.


                          God, I hope so, considering what is 'conservative' these days! Bob Dole used to be considered a conservative in the past. Think about that for a second.

                          I think there's a battle for the heart and soul of the Republican Party going on right now, and the conservatives who are largely the majority membership of that party are under assault.


                          Well when the conservatives have as their standard bearer a President who has a ~30% approval rating, what do you think will happen. And don't try the trick that conservatives are doing, which is trying to pin Bush on the moderates. He's a conservative with SOME moderate views. Not the other way around.

                          [q=Oerdin]Why is it you always post a thread on what ever Rush Limbaugh spins that day?[/q]

                          It is actually a VERY interesting topic of discussion. Though I wish he'd post an opposing view. C'est la vie.
                          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                          • #14
                            Oerdin, educate this. STFU. 40% of Dallas, a long way from the border, are Hispanic. Half of those are illegal. Thats fact.

                            Tell me when you want to talk.
                            Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                            "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                            He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You totally avoided his point Sloww... perhaps because you can't respond to it?
                              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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