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  • #31
    Ben, your article is total bollocks. Illegal immigrants do not get any special privileges which citizens don't get. To say otherwise is at best uninformed and (more likely) at worst racist. Let's review the rubbish article you posted.

    The first claim is that most Mexicans get affirmative action which is false. Most affirmative action programs were ended in the 90's and in California (the state which had the most affirmative action programs) nearly all of them have been phased out in favor of extra help based upon income; meaning schools in poor areas will get additional funds based not upon race but based upon how poor the students attending that school are. It is race neutral. Colleges in this state cannot legally lower standards for one race in order to get more students of a certain race. The one area we do still see affirmative action is very limited in scope and in time; minority owned businesses can receive a 5% bonus to bidding on government contracts but that is pretty small and that bonus is limited to 5 or 10 years depending upon the exact classification (in order to last the whole ten years you must be a disabled military vet with a service related injury).

    The next garbage claim is that illegals get treated differently from citizens to get into the University of California or the California State University systems. The reality is this is entirely based upon state residency and any person who has lived in the state for 5 years (and can document it with tax returns using either a social security number or an individual taxpayer ID) is entitled to instate tuition. Citizen or noncitizen are treated the same and being a resident of the state of California is what entitles people to get instate tuition charges.

    There are no tax breaks allowed for illegal aliens in our current law. In fact they are required to prove they don't owe taxes so the reality is they have a higher bar to jump over compared to citizens. I'm just not seeing any special privileges here and show a bill which has zero chance of becoming law doesn't cut it, Ben.

    Next we have the claim that illegals get away with breaking the law while citizens don't. Again this is false. Local police choose not to enforce dozens of laws (from marijuana possession, to running stop signs, and yes even asking for proof of legal residency) based entirely upon how local officials prioritize crimes. With over crowded prisons and local officials under court orders to release people due to over crowding the local officials have decided to concentrate resources on violent offenders and instead to over look some nonviolent crimes. If anything citizens get more breaks then illegals simply because there are more citizens then illegals by a 30:1.2 margin. Still not seeing the special privileges you've claimed.

    Forging documents is a crime which is punished. Illegals don't get a free pass though this receives a lower priority from officials who are stretched thin. The claims made in the article are 1) a total lie about what the proposed bill says and 2) deliberately over looks that a proposed bill isn't law and that the author is claiming that illegals currently enjoy privileges citizens don't. That's simply a lie as most honest people will free admit.

    The rest of the article degenerates into a stupid political rant which has nothing to do with the debate at hand. Suffice it to say that even a moderately educated person can see that article as a transparent pack of lies. None of it adds up under even modest scrutiny.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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    • #32
      bull**** oerdin

      I once lost a promotion to some illegal immigrant
      To us, it is the BEAST.

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      • #33
        That's a joke, right? Even if true how does that prove Ben's contention that illegals get special privlages which citizens don't or Sloww's contention that illegals chose to be illegal dispite having so many chances to become legal?
        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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        • #34
          Why not have unrestricted borders? With a powerful system of international regulations on wages and benefits, over, say, 50 years things should equalize out enough between the have and have-not nations to avoid mass migration distruptions.
          Where is this powerful system of international regulations on wages and benefits? It's supposed to show up in the next 50 years?

          Heh. I can possibly see India's people eventually accepting labor unions, good wages and whatnot, but the elephant in the room is China, IMO. With an authoritarian government in place (quasi-communist/corporate state), I can't see the 1.3 billion people there getting a chance anytime soon to make it so they can't be taken advantage of by big business and government cronyism.

          Then there's the matter of Africa. That's where big business will go next if India and China become more like Europe and America in terms of wages and benefits. I guess I'm sort of rambling here, but it's going to take a global change so the folks who look to take advantage of others don't have another place to go to when one area has finally had enough of them.

          Knowing humanity, it's going to take a lot longer than 50 years to accomplish.

          Gatekeeper
          "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire

          "Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius

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          • #35
            I'd personally like to see NAFTA develop along the lines of the EU with its own internal system of laws and regulations a la the EU. That would be best for everyone.
            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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            • #36
              Ben, your article is total bollocks. Illegal immigrants do not get any special privileges which citizens don't get. To say otherwise is at best uninformed and (more likely) at worst racist.
              It's not my article.

              I don't even agree with the sentiments, as I believe that immigration ought to be reformed, and that legal immigration is a great benefit.

              However, this is your 'racist'

              Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
              "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
              2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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              • #37
                Thomas Sowell is a man I disagree with (and vehemently so) more than 90 percent of the time, yet he made a few relevant points in his immigration column.

                I like Leonard Pitts much better. And Joseph Galloway.

                Gatekeeper
                "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire

                "Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
                  However, this is your 'racist'

                  Please reread my post. I said at best uninformed and at worst racist. In any event that author is either totally ignorant of the subject he is writing about or else a liar. Either way he is not an author to be taken seriously on this subject.
                  Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                  • #39
                    To say otherwise is at best uninformed and (more likely) at worst racist.
                    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                    • #40
                      I'll bet Limbaugh will deny the conservative wing of the GOP is in power when spending is brought up

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                      • #41
                        Of course he does. Everything bad is always the fault of someone else while the far right is always responsible for everything good. Most of the population sees this to be the total garbage it is but the Neds of the US, who hate to think for themselves or question their prophets, regurgitates it upon command.
                        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Re: War!

                          Originally posted by asleepathewheel


                          such as?
                          I invite you to read the linked article for details. If you absolutely insist, I will cut and paste.
                          http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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                          • #43
                            Oerdin, according to the Limbaugh article, the Senate Bill grants illegals a right no American has except if he has an employment contract of some sort -- the right to not be fired at will. If an employer wants to fire an illegal, he has to show just cause or he can be sued for damages.

                            I think this new right borders on the unconstitutional. How can illegals be granted more rights than Americans?
                            http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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                            • #44
                              Imran, Bush a conservative? Your major objection to man over the years is is penchant to spend big, to promote large new entitlement programs, to impose tarriffs, etc. He has hardly been with his base on the illegals issue and gave us Hariet Miers, the single worst Supreme Court Nominee in the history of the United States, as a pander to Dingy Harry.

                              The man has long ago outlasted his welcome with his Republican base. It is time for him to go.

                              Unfortunately for the nation, the People will take their frustration with this man out on the Republican Party in general this November. That will be a travesty.
                              http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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                              • #45
                                Imran, Bush a conservative?


                                Yes. Moderate Republicans never liked him at all. So obviously he had to be put into power (and kept there) by the Conservatives. So he's with them, no matter how much they want to spin it now.

                                People will take their frustration with this man out on the Republican Party in general this November. That will be a travesty.


                                Why? The party deserves it. People are pissed about Iraq and the conservatives have been most supportive of such war. That's why his approval rating is in the toilet. Not the Medicare perscription drug program or steel tariffs.
                                “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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