Dallas Mega March draws thousands

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I saw the protest at the Dallas town hall building and there was, what, one Mexican flag?! There were a ton of American flags.

That's because the word went out that waving Mexican flags was doing a lot more harm to their cause than good. Of course everyone saw the initial wave of protests where the Mexican flag vastly outnumbered the American flag, so we know where many protestors allegiance really lies.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
And like said, Irish Americans waive Irish flags every St. Patty's Day parade! What's the problem with waving flags of their heritage?

I wish everyone would "waive" the flag waving in general. Despite my own modicum of Irish heritage I would never think of waving the flag of a state I've never been to.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly

Absolutely. I'd love to see a bill that fast tracks illegals for citizenship once they pay a fine and meet other requirements, but that also requires them to identify all their former employers, who would then be assessed fines and back taxes.

I agree completely.

[Sikander]

We need to get a grip on who comes to this country, how many come and from where. I don't favor giving anyone who came here illegally any advantage whatsoever over those who didn't come because they could not do so legally. If we want greater immigration than what we have legally we should increase the number of legal immigrants, not wink at those who flout our laws as their first act in our country.

Part of getting that grip is to make it very difficult to get here illegally. This is largely for security reasons, but the bonus will be that it will cut down on illegal immigrants as well. As for those already here we should squeeze them out by introducing biometric IDs and enforcing their use by employers stringently. This will squeeze the greater portion of the illegal economic immigrants out of the U.S. by eliminating the reason they are here in the first place.

Once these measures are in place we should then decide how many people of what sort we'd like to allow into the country either as guest workers or future citizens. We can no longer allow the vagaries of Latin American politics and economics to decide for us how many people flee their dysfunctional states for the U.S. We are not a pressure valve, but a state that has its own needs, and immigration should serve the needs of both populations. I simply do not think it is wise or fair to be allowing only Latin Americans to enter the country in large numbers. We're better off with a more diverse immigrant stream which will create smaller ghettoes, which will mean much more rapid integration into American society.

The whole dance in Washington is simply a smokescreen by both parties, neither one of which really wants any sort of reform on this issue. They can read the polls though and thus they have to pretend to be doing something about illegal immigration. Between the bribes paid by business to keep their stream of cheap employees coming (which drives down the wages of our present lower class) and the fear of getting on the wrong side of the wave of illegal and dubiously legal immigrants and their citizen children both parties simply play for partisan advantage, the needs of the nation be damned.

[Jon Miller]

I don't see what is wrong with illegal immigrants (besides the illegal bit) anyways

JM
(in otherwords, I am for blanket legalization, and open immigration)

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by SlowwHand


Bull****. Unless you're suggestng state's rights, which I don't think you want to do.

That's exactly what I'm suggesting. States are sovereign entities. If the majority in Texas wants to have all their highway signs in Spanish as well as English, let 'em. And if we get to the point where there are so many Spanish speakers in Texas that it becomes the American Quebec, so be it.

Besides, y'all have been talking trash about having your own country for ages now; maybe the Mexicans will finally do for you what you couldn't do for yourselves.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs

I'll differ with you in saying that federally the official language should be English, while state and local governments can choose to recognize 2nd official languages. Maybe down the line, once Spanish is more prevelant through out the US instead of just a few border states then it too can become officially recognized. Again, no language is to be banned, just no government documents printed in other languages unless requested and again advocacy groups will fill that role with gusto.

If you want to say that Fed documents would only be in English, or that translations into other languages would only be available to State's at their own expense, that's fine. I don't even minde the idea of a language test for citizenship; it's impossible to be an informed citizen without English. I just don't like the idea of declaring an "official language." America should be and become what Americans make it.

I don't think we can blow our image much worse, if you ignore the fact that Iran may be in Bush's nuclear bunker-busting sights...

I'm not talking about our image; that's the surface. I'm talking about who we are, deep down, as a people. Are we really a people who would put up a Berlin Wall? Is that really good for our national soul? That may seem like a hokey question, but it is one I ask.

And I'm also conerned about terrorism and smuggling across the border. Coupled with port security (instead of the current lip-service approach), we'd be better able to protect ourselves from the rage we've fostered in the world, rage we'd be hard-pressed to cool over the coming years even if we kick the Republican-majority out of office for years to come.

This would be a more compelling argument if we actually were hardening our ports, and the far more porous Canadian border for that matter. But we're not. The wall isn't about terrorism. It's purely about Immigration, and it's both an awful solution and an awful symbol.

Think of it as a compromise to those that would deport regardless. Deporting illegals working for sh*ty employers would be no different than what we already do. Allowing businesses that provide humane work conditions for their workers to continue operating might prevent or at least mitigate the damage done to the economy that would otherwise occur in shutting them done outright. This could be tied into an expanded visa system in that these companies, once caught, would cooperate with the system to legalize their workers and to operate within the system for future hirings. Perhaps, instead of deporting the illegals of sh*ty employers having been shutdown, they could instead be brought over to the compliant companies.

The thing is, we wouldn't deport them anyway -- we never deport illegals who behave themselves. So, really, deporting the ones who worked for sub-standard wages would just be punishing the unlucky, which is needlessly cruel. Either deport them all or parole them all, but their fate shouldn't hang on the qualities of their felonious employers.

[fed1943]

Pay a fine,then legalize...that's very funny.Begin illegal as a path to legal,that's more than fun.
Lets face it. Both sides are lying.
Ones just want to get payed better than they was in their country. Others to pay less than they would pay to their beloved fellow.
So,the easy solution is to keep the rules as they are: illegal, but always ruling.
(and Mexican are not dangerous; they can adapt; they already did in the past).
Best regards,

[Zkribbler]

I saw an interesting interview of a guy from the Rand Corporation:

He said the line "They do the job Americans won't" is a half truth. It should continue "...at the wages offered." When asked what would happen if wages were raised to the point Americans would take the job, he stated the industries involved (farm workers, garment workers and food preparation) would collapse.

He said immigrants come here to work. They are not overtaxing welfare. They are not overtaxing the healthcare system (because only the healthy ones come). The only sizable impact is on education, because their children are flooding the schools.

My own personal view is that's okay. When these kids turn 18, I'd rather have them educated than not educated.

[Zkribbler]

Basically, we have three alternatives:

(1) Status quo
(2) Send the 11 million back -- ain't gonna happen.
(3) Create a path to citizenship

The McCain-Kennedy Plan is not amnesty. There's a $2,000 fine. Applicants have to pay back taxes. They have to learn English. And then they have to get in line behind all the legal immigrants.

[Whoha]

The McCain-Kennedy plan is amnesty. Number 8 to be exact. each of the previous had stringent enforcement provisions, and each of the previous had those enforcement provisions ignored.

"he stated the industries involved (farm workers, garment workers and food preparation) would collapse."

That has been said before, incorrectly. back that statement up with examples showing wages being bid into the stratosphere for such jobs before the influx of illegals.

further then that, why would they collapse? Agriculture has uncharacteristically gained tariff protection against foreign competitors, something they presumably wouldn't need if they had an unending river of slave labor and slave labor were the end all be all in these industries.

Once the border has been secured, you'll see people react more favorably towards amnesty #8, but until then even the senate won't touch it.

[Lonestar]

So, is it sedition yet?

[Zkribbler]

They want Texas?! I say we give it to 'em.


Whoha After I posted, I thought more about what the Rand guy said.

If the purpose of bringing the illegals "out of the shadows" is the end the abuses heaped upon them because of their illegal status, does this mean that the illegals going thru whatever process is set up will get paid minimum wage? If not, then why are we bringing them out of the shadows? If so, then won't the increased wages bring about the industry-wide collapse the Rand guy is predicting?

Seems like a lose-lose situation.

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't see anything wrong with trying to get into Texas.

Some would say it shows considerable sense.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

I marched in Boston today. The parade was just starting when I got out of class. There had to have been 20,000+ in Copley Plaza.

At first I just stood at the side and cheered, but this being Boston, it wasn't long until an Irish contingent passed by. I joined with them.

Its funny...I could understand the Latinos speaking in Spanish better than the Irish speaking in English.

[Zkribbler]

I'd join in the L.A. demonstration, but it's supposed to rain:

Justice of all...weather permitting!