Personal Spiritual Problems

[Pekka]

Right.

And when following my own logic, I should get out of the church, because I see they are doing the wrong thing and it won't change, there's no pressuring from the inside to make it more modern.

So I'd have to quit it and keep going on my own.

[fed1943]

What is your opinion(answer to yourself):is God Christian?
Best regards,

[Pekka]

And there's more too, what's with most of the .. rituals? I mean, every group has their own and they kind of vary, but they have nothing to do with anything, now do they? It's like yeah, let's do this stuff and that's.. umm... make something up.

Then there's the boring songs about suffering and pain, then the priest tells us abotu suffering and pain and sin, then there's one positive note, then back to death and dark thank you very much.

Then he tells you a story from the bible, and says what it kind of means, which the priest just read yesterday night and kind of tried to parallel things and prolly just 'I'll wing it right on this word document right here'. Hey, that might sound funny and weird, but that is extremely likely too. Think about it. What's the point? How about, priest tells us a story of interest, and then we all talk and think what it means, if it means anything, maybe it's just a story, why try to find hidden messages, most of the times you find what you want to find anyway. It's just a big make belief placebo gathering now isn't it?

What's the point, I ask again? Why can't the priest be like a chairman of the board, an MC sort of, and why can't we have some nice music? WHO LIKES THE DEATH MUSIC they have? ORGAN MUSIC??? If you ask why youth in general is not coming in, I just named few reasons. They are not particularly happy to go sit in for death and pain concert with organ music and blabbering where they must shut up.

It's quite strict too. Sure, we have more liberal ways, groups etc, but I'm generalizing a bit here, it's not a good thing to do but these are just the way they usually are. Not always, but usually.

Then some high ranking top dogs come on with more bling bling than rappers. I mean, is that a way of saying 'I'm carrying 200k on me today, so that's like school supplies for a school in poor country and food for a year... '.

And there's absolutely no debate going on in these places, you can do it on the internet, but if you'd do it there, you would ruin your reputation. THere's absolutely no room for open minds what so ever.

I do find these to be quite against the character and ideas of Jesus. The person who these people claim to follow.

[VetLegion]

Re: Personal Spiritual Problems

Originally posted by Pekka We should look into this whole thing and see where we live now and update the religion.

And practice what we preach

[Pekka]

fed, that's an excellent point too.

[Ben Kenobi]

So here's the paradox.. I want to be a good Christian. This would involve studying the bible a little (using common sense, aka brains), my heart and realizing the world around me. Also knowing about other religions and philosophies.

Now, to make this balanced.. if I was to really do what my heart follows, I would 'divorce' from the church today, in the basis that I want to be a good Christian.

Why would going to church prevent you from studying the bible on your own time? I agree with you that we have a responsibility to study the bible and spend time with it, but that's not our only responsibility as believers.

I can understand you going and saying, well look at all those other folks. Look at how they are never living up to the faith that they profess. Why should I go to church with them when they are not holding up their end?

However, none of us do. We help each other and none of us is supposed to go at it all alone. I also agree that if the community is seriously preventing you from living your faith that you would be justified, but the solution is not to divorce yourself from all communities, but to find one that will support you.

[Ben Kenobi]

So I think Pekka is correct in basing it´s belief rather on the core values of christianity rather than the literal truth of the bible

Ok. You reject tradition because we all know how tradition is contrary to the Word of God.

Then you reject the literal truth of the bible because it is contrary to what we know of the world.

So what do you base your faith upon? Personal feelings? Your own interpretation of what scripture means? I'm curious as to how one is suppose to arrive at the 'core tenets of Christianity' without access to scripture or tradition.

[Ben Kenobi]

I believe it's a collection of articles written by men, with the possibility of God affecting their thoughts.

Then why these articles in particular? What makes them so special that they would be included in a bible if all they are is a collection?

[Pekka]

"Why would going to church prevent you from studying the bible on your own time? I agree with you that we have a responsibility to study the bible and spend time with it, but that's not our only responsibility as believers."

Why would I need to go to church to begin with? I'm not into organ music about pain and death. Or the even crazier than my own ramblings of some old dude who seems to be in touch with reality and God less than normal people.

I don't think I have any responsiblities as a Christian except to do what my heart tells me to do.

My problem is not that they have less faith than myself. Quite the contrary, I think they have blind faith, many of them, that leads them to discrimination of others for starters and it seems to create obstacles to their thinking. They have blind trust. And that's why they are easily manipulated, easily believe what someone tells them. For example, if a priest tells them something, they will believe it. Priest is just a person. It's not word of God.

Now, what you say is more viable solution. To find something that suits me better. However, we are super homogenic place, in terms of race, people and religion.

Also I don't see why I need to practice traditions of what ever it is that the section would have. I'm just not into it. I'm not into the whole thing in general. I might be up to a different approach altogether. But that is hard to find, even impossible.

Also, I think that associating myself with this whole big organisation, the whole Christianity thing, I see it going the wrong way in the big scheme of things. Not as faith, but in actions and inactions.

As to why those articles, I see nothing weird or miraculous about how it would come together. I just don't see it as anything special, even though I consider bible special book. BUT just a book. A guideline and collection of stories and lessons. That's about it. One of the things that leads to difficult situation in my eyes is the literal interpretation of the bible. And as I don't believe that it's a... miracle book like that, I tend ot have a problem with the ideas many present as ultimate truths. Part of blind faith.

[Tiamat]

I'm on the same page as Jon Miller, actually quite shocked and surprised that I agreed with Pekka for about 85 to 90% of what you said. You were off on some things but surprisingly on the mark for me. Hit home.

I used to belong to the First Baptist Church in.....well small town in Texas and I was even the choir soloist on Sunday mornings sometimes. You get the Bible belt picture along with some Bible thumping as well. My melt down came when a young lady with downs syndrome would sit on the front row and sing her heart out just as loud as she could because she was happy to be there singing for her God. Well Mrs. Cadillac driving diamond ring wearing snooty pants and her friend of the same went to the choir director and suggested that it didn't look good for her to be in the front row singing her little heart out on Sunday morning TV, because the poor thing could not carry a tune in a wheelbarrow!!

But because the Bible said make a joyful noise unto the Lord with all your heart, she was and was extremly joyful and happy doing it. It brought her great joy and all Mrs. Snooty pants and friend could think about was how it looked. I walked away that day and haven't really gone back but consider myself to still hold to my ideas. Church should not be about looks and money. It should be about good deeds and working towards the greater good and just being a basic decent kind person instead of a bitc*y stressed out caffinanted freek.

[Pekka]

To be more precise though, these are not exactly spiritual problems. Those would be that I am losing faith. That's not what's happening. Though I'm losing faith for the movement and how it's conducting business.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Pekka
I don't think I have any responsiblities as a Christian except to do what my heart tells me to do.

[DRoseDARs]

Jesus loves you, but Satan says it with chocolate.

[Pekka]

drose, hah that's the first time I've heard that pretty good.

[DRoseDARs]

I don't know if it's original, but I'd never heard it before until I came up with it myself a few years ago.