Personal Spiritual Problems

[Pekka]

"unitarian universalism"

Uhm? Sounds like hippies combined with communism. And fascism!

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
yes, if things were different 1800 years ago, things would be different now

I don't see your point, really

My point is, what you consider as "properly Christian" has a lot to do with politics within the church.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Pekka
"unitarian universalism"

Uhm? Sounds like hippies combined with communism. And fascism!

That's the church that Robert Ingersoll said he would join if he ever would join a church.

[Jon Miller]

I wouldn't be a part of the church you described either...

JM

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Pekka
"unitarian universalism"

Uhm? Sounds like hippies combined with communism. And fascism!

Well someone who went to a unitarian church told me that you are required to pay tyths. That's more fascist I think.

[Proteus_MST]

Probably also dependand on the coutnry where you live.

Here in germany the unitarians have the status of a church, meaning that they get church taxes (in germany every institution which is accepted as church can do so, meaning that the church gets a fixed percentage (around 7%) of your pay as chruch taxes (therefore accepted churches in germany have no need to use marketing strategies to get as much money as possible out of their members, just to survive ))

[Ben Kenobi]

Yes, the unitarians are an option.

However, they don't believe that Christ was the son of God, they believe that he was a good teacher and a man.

So they aren't Christian. Their biggest thing seems to be that they believe in human perfection, and that we need to help people so that they can become perfect here on earth.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
believe in human perfection

Pekka already is a unitarian.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Pekka

We should look into this whole thing and see where we live now and update the religion.

I'd rather see society, or rather, individual cultures and peoples move past their respective religions altogether. Why "update" the religion? Why not just accept the fact that these religions are just myths and superstitions and MOVE ON!!? We can teach the next generation the morals and ethics without all the mystical nonsense. We don't need to believe in pink unicorns and false prophets... or hang on to dillusions of messiahs coming back.

It's not a difficult proposition. But I understand it will be hard for people to let go. However, we don't need to forget religion or our culture... we don't need to burn Bibles or block out any mention of religion from our society. We just need to not take that stuff literally. Keep an open mind... think critically... not be stubborn, ignorant, gullible, and hostile to science and new ideas.

That's all.

It's pretty simple really.

Because the whole notion of "updating" the religion is hypocritical. Then, you are changing everything the religion was originally about. You are effectively saying, the religion is false anyways. And if it's false, why believe in it at all?

I don't get the obsession with hanging on to old beliefs at all. As we progress as a society, we stop doing the things we've learned are wrong. We stop believing in the things that we know aren't true. But for some reason, the vast majority of the planet still believes in the things people were believing in over a thousand years ago.

We've learned so much since then. Life is so much different from that time. But yet, the core beliefs remain the same. We need to move forward... not remain stuck in the past, hanging on to primitive beliefs. Otherwise, we are going to go nowhere.

[Ben Kenobi]

And these people, how can they say to me that then you aren't a Christian anymore. Why do I need to belong into Jesus' left leg segment in order to belong? I don't need their acceptance. It's way too personal for me anyway. I'd be the 'guy who left the church' and not the one 'who saw wrong in the system and went on his own way as a statement and as something he saw as a must in order for him to stay Christian'

You are right that you don't need to be inside the church to be saved, there are many who have not heard of Christ who will be saved through following the law written on their hearts.

It is different for those who profess to be Christian. I cannot go and say that I have always been confident in the path of the church that I have attended, else I would not have left one to join another. I can say that I am happy now with my decision, and I expect that they will have to wheel me out in a casket when I leave.

All I can suggest is to keep looking since you seem to have a good idea of what you want from your church. I would be very surprised if all there were only Lutherans in Finland.

If you cannot find a group that completely fits what you believe church ought to be I would also say find the one that is closest to what you are looking for.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Sava
We can teach the next generation the morals and ethics without all the mystical nonsense.

Why should I accept your morality if it isn't God's?

[Ben Kenobi]

Because the whole notion of "updating" the religion is hypocritical. Then, you are changing everything the religion was originally about. You are effectively saying, the religion is false anyways. And if it's false, why believe in it at all?

Unsure what you mean by 'updating'. Progressive revelation is just that God chooses to show us more as time goes on. What he says later does not contradict that which came earlier, it goes further.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Unsure what you mean by 'updating'.

I'm not sure either... I was responding to what Pekka said.

Progressive revelation is just that God chooses to show us more as time goes on. What he says later does not contradict that which came earlier, it goes further.

And it's apparant to me that some people will never be able to let go.

That's unfortunate. But hopefully, through education, each generation that follows will see religion for what it is... nonsense.

Honestly, I don't know what it will take, or how long it will take. It could be sudden (relatively speaking), or a gradual process... but I do believe that faith is going to take a backseat in favor of critical thinking, science, and education...

It's possible we're in that transition period right now. I hope, for humanity's sake, that we are.

And this is not just me trolling religion... I honestly believe that religion and the thought processes (if there is one) behind faith is detrimental to human civilization. It's one of my core beliefs.

[Pekka]

updating religion is not hypocircy nor is it saying it's false. Depends on the updates.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Pekka
updating religion is not hypocircy nor is it saying it's false. Depends on the updates.

A true religion wouldn't need updates... because God is perfect... he would have gotten it right the first time.