Happy SS rememberance day!

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Serb


Great f*cking logic - it's Ok that I burned and gazed people alive, slaughterd them like mad dogs, because you know, I heard the other side is even worse (you surelly heard all those terriffing stories about soviet death camps in Eastern Europe). So I chosed SS legion to fight for freedom of my country by slaughtering those pesky unarmed Soviet civilians somewhere in the Beylorussia or near Leningrad, which is a hundreds of miles away from my belowed Latvia. So it's Ok I slaughter them, because...well, you do know that soviets were evil? So it was Ok to fight agaist them. And atually Hitler was right, and he is actually greatly misunderstood by modern generation - Soviets (read Russians) are the evil. We have to completely exterminate them for the good of our superior western society.

Sad that Russians today can't see that no matter how many parades they have and how many times they talk about how evil the Nazies were, their only source of pride during those years were that they weren't as monstrous as the Nazies were. Then again that is what happens when the people abandon their motherland to a handfull of criminals (communist party) that claim to speak for the welfare of all when all they do is fill their own pockets at the expense of decent folks. Too bad Hitler and Stalin couldn't have fought it out among themselves for a long time without involving everyone else in their murdering schemes of world domination.

[DanS]

Originally posted by Serb
So,
"It begins with Ivan the Terrible..."



Thank you very much.

I'm out of beer and I'm out of here. Sya.

I thought it would be a simple matter for you to admit. This can't be the first time you've heard about the gulag, is it?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Fooked Ya mistar, It's you who have no idea where the freedom of assembly ends and nazism starts.

Who cares if the protestors are Nazis, they have the same freedom of association rights as anyone else. Oh yeah, I forgot, Russians don't believe in rights, right Mr. Stalin?

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by Serb
So,
"It begins with Ivan the Terrible..."



Thank you very much.

I'm out of beer and I'm out of here. Sya.

So it was a drunk thread all along! I feel cheated.

So, it's okay to call Waffen SS butcherers, which majority wasn't, but when someone mentions the Red Army rolling across Poland and the Baltics, pillaging and raping, you tell them to **** themselves and stop spewing Goebbelsian propaganda?

These people fought for their country, their national independence. From your perspective, on the wrong side. As far as I know, they took part in no attacks against civilians, and fought with distinction in the eastern front. And they deserve to be remembered for that.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Serb


That's it!
You don't make a heroes out of them. Your ministers do not open such freak shows and do not treat those f*ckers as heroes.
That's the diference.

No... we don't make martyrs out of them. We let them have their say, vent whatever they want to vent, and go about our day while they're doing so. They'll get it out of them and lose steam.

But... inspiring a country of 300,000,000 people and 9.6 million sq km requires a lot of dedication and, more importantly, organization. Given our historical background, it's sometimes hard for the average US citizen to see that it requires a lot fewer resources to destabilize a government when the entire populace lives in an area the size of West Virginia. So, recognizing that the American model rests upon a number of physical facts beyond our control, I can understand the temptation of smaller (like Latvia) or less stable (like Russia) countries to wade in and knock some heads.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
So it was a drunk thread all along! I feel cheated.

So, it's okay to call Waffen SS butcherers, which majority wasn't, but when someone mentions the Red Army rolling across Poland and the Baltics, pillaging and raping, you tell them to **** themselves and stop spewing Goebbelsian propaganda?

You expect Serb to be objective and nonbiased?!

[JohnT]

Originally posted by DanS
There is lots of irony there. I would guess that the ACLU has a large contingent of Jewish members.

Thinking about it Dan, you're probably on to something there.

1978 could be seen as the period when the ACLU was at its apex of power and influence. Ten years later Dukakis proudly admitted he's a "card carrying member of the ACLU"... and promptly loses to the ex-head of the CIA. Now that you mentioned it, I'm thinking their stand on Skokie (because it was a HUGE deal that summer) probably hurt them internally and financially more than one might initially think.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by JohnT


Well, yeah.

Hell, we even allow neo-nazi rallies in Jewish neighborhoods. It was quite the uproar back in '78, with the ACLU taking the Nazi's side, the city council voting against it, etc. The Nazi's finally didn't march in Skokie because their original venue (some park in Chicago) became available.

It happened again in 2000 when the Ku Klux Klan held a rally on the steps of the Skokie courthouse. Again, they weren't banned, but they were counter-protested.

That reminds me I need to rent Blues Brothers again.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by JohnT
Thinking about it Dan, you're probably on to something there.

1978 could be seen as the period when the ACLU was at its apex of power and influence. Ten years later Dukakis proudly admitted he's a "card carrying member of the ACLU"... and promptly loses to the ex-head of the CIA. Now that you mentioned it, I'm thinking their stand on Skokie (because it was a HUGE deal that summer) probably hurt them internally and financially more than one might initially think.

It did. There was a TV movie about Skokie, mostly centering around the ACLU. The lawyer representing the Nazis was Jewish himself. They lost a lot of big donors for their principled stand on the issue.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun


So it was a drunk thread all along! I feel cheated.

So, it's okay to call Waffen SS butcherers, which majority wasn't, but when someone mentions the Red Army rolling across Poland and the Baltics, pillaging and raping, you tell them to **** themselves and stop spewing Goebbelsian propaganda?

These people fought for their country, their national independence. From your perspective, on the wrong side. As far as I know, they took part in no attacks against civilians, and fought with distinction in the eastern front. And they deserve to be remembered for that.

Yeah, keep sh!tting yourself.
SS is the criminal organization according to Nurenberg. When the hell you will understand that? Latvian SS division was all about murdering civilians. Latvian SS legion has been created by direct order of Hitler and was under direct command of Himler. It was a Nazis "cleaning team" whose goal was to exterminate Jews, commisars and anti-facists. That's it. No f*cking honoroble fighting, no f*cking heroism, just a blatant butchering and slaughtering of unarmed civilians - women, kids, elders. And as for the patriotic crap, FYI information those SS divisions ended up by capitulating to Soviet Baltic divisions. That was ironic.

From what I know Finland didn't have special extermination teams whose whose goal was to exterminate population on occupied territories. There were even synagogues in Finnish army. Why you keep backing criminals and protray them in way that they were just like Finns in WW2? Stop fooling yourself, those were SS, SS God damn it. Read something about their atrocities first.

And one more thing, Germans who fought vs. Soviets thought they are fighting for their country and of course not all of them commited war crimes. So I ask you,
HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SS PARADE ANYWHERE IN GERMANY? A SINGLE MONUMENT DEDICATED TO SS MEMBERS?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Sprayber


Sad that Russians today can't see that no matter how many parades they have and how many times they talk about how evil the Nazies were, their only source of pride during those years were that they weren't as monstrous as the Nazies were. Then again that is what happens when the people abandon their motherland to a handfull of criminals (communist party) that claim to speak for the welfare of all when all they do is fill their own pockets at the expense of decent folks. Too bad Hitler and Stalin couldn't have fought it out among themselves for a long time without involving everyone else in their murdering schemes of world domination.

It's sad your dear king has been resqued after pretzel attack. In this case more than two thousand Americans and hell knows how many thousands Iraqis (sure I realize their barbarian lives have no value for you) might be still alive.

And as for pride, you sir are moron. What the hell could you know about pride about nazis and about us? So far you demonstrated that you know nothing about those things. So basicly you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.
No offence, have a nice night.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Fooked Ya mistar, It's you who have no idea where the freedom of assembly ends and nazism starts.

Who cares if the protestors are Nazis, they have the same freedom of association rights as anyone else. Oh yeah, I forgot, Russians don't believe in rights, right Mr. Stalin?

Are you deaf? In Latvia SS veterans are treated as heroes, while veternas of anti-Hitler coalition treated as crap. That's the preoblem, not your crappy crap about equality of rights.
And for your knowledge, nazi parties are illigal in Russia. So, YES we don't believe in right of to be a nazi jerk. As long as your are nazi and marching throught the streets waving nazi banners and shouting nazi speaches - you go to jail. Facism is banned in Russia aside your and Baltic nazi wounderlnads.

[Pekka]

MMmmm.. weird thread. On the other hand I don't agree with Serb but then again I kind of do agree with it.

I don't think SS groups of any nation, no matter how they were affiliated should be shown any kind of celebration, I mean, sure they can assemble, but they shouldn't be recognized from the state at all.

But I agree with some of you, the best way to get rid of these people is to let them vent, no one listens. I'm not the 'offended' one when I see SS idiots saluting each other. I understand there might be SS people alive who never killed a person, and who just sees his comrade, so they are vets, they have no right to hang out?

HMm, interesting dilemma. But I see it as problematic, SS was of course, like Serb says, criminal bunch of mofos. Affiliation to it shouldn't be seen as a great thing. If you were affiliated with the SS, it means you were directly or indirectly part of their crimes, besides, at least you weren't against it unless you resigned right on the spot you noticed what was happening.

So no, I don't underestand why we would have SS marches today. Except from rebellious youth with nothing else to do, I mean REAL affiliation to the old school. We have some SS folks too, I mean, I don't know if anyone of them is alive, and they were sure a small group of people, almost not worth mentioning. But as they were, I don't see how we should even recognize their efforts. I mean, you had to join that group, it's not like you were born in it. I just don't agree that they should be remembered very much. They are burning in hell.

[Serb]

Originally posted by JohnT


No... we don't make martyrs out of them. We let them have their say, vent whatever they want to vent, and go about our day while they're doing so. They'll get it out of them and lose steam.

So if I get it right, it's Ok for nazis or KKK members to gather somewhere in Washington and start agitating for killing Jews/black people or someone else? To prononce speaches glorifing Hitler or some kind of local nazi butcher who slaughtered hell knows how many people because they were "inferior" according to his point of view?
It's shoking, and actually I can't imagine that.

Well, at least you don't make martyrs out of them. And members of your government do not open memorials dedicated to SS members.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


You expect Serb to be objective and nonbiased?!

Who does?
I am biased, but objective as hell.