Church + Girlfriend problem.

[Zoid]

Re: Re: Church + Girlfriend problem.

Originally posted by lord of the mark



At least a billion Muslims would agree with you. Among many other people.

Cultural blinders

Well, they are right. Using the church as the sole connection with God is only a question of control. A way to get power and money. And it´s a lazy way to experience God. Why do you need a church to tell you what you should feel and what God wants?

God is everywhere and everything, the only thing you need to communicate with God is yourself.

Institutionalized Religion

[binTravkin]

God is everywhere and everything, the only thing you need to communicate with God is yourself, and you yourself can decide how to communicate with him.

Religion

[alva]

Using the church as the sole connection with God is only a question of control.

AKA the alpha male. Bow to the master. Dogs seem to enjoy this lifestyle...

It does make alot of things alot easier of course, no longer having to bare the resposibility.

[lord of the mark]

Re: Re: Re: Church + Girlfriend problem.

Originally posted by Zoid


Well, they are right. Using the church as the sole connection with God is only a question of control. A way to get power and money. And it´s a lazy way to experience God. Why do you need a church to tell you what you should feel and what God wants?

God is everywhere and everything, the only thing you need to communicate with God is yourself.

Institutionalized Religion

Ah, you seem to have missed the subtle irony of my jibe. Not only are there folks who approach G-d outside of organized religion, but there are hundreds of millions who are part of organized religion - but who never or rarely enter a "church" Christianity not being the only "organized" religion in the world. By a long shot.

Of course in my shul we dont go to be told what to feel. We discuss and question, and hold different opinions. I certainly dont share my Rabbis theological approach - hes a Maimonidean rationalist universalist, while I am more Rosenzwiegian existentialist. But its ok, we can share a community, without sharing the same theology. There are many things a religious community provides. Of course if you a follower of a faith tradition that relies less on community than mine does, thats fine for you.

[lord of the mark]

Re: Re: Re: Church + Girlfriend problem.

Originally posted by Zoid


Well, they are right. Using the church as the sole connection with God is only a question of control. A way to get power and money.

Having sat on a Synagogue board, I can assure you there are easier ways to get power and money than being a Rabbi

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by binTravkin
God is everywhere and everything, the only thing you need to communicate with God is yourself,

yahbut, you still need a minyan to say Kaddish.

[Ming]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Church + Girlfriend problem.

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Having sat on a Synagogue board, I can assure you there are easier ways to get power and money than being a Rabbi

For many religions, they aren't in it for the money

But there are some which are just total con jobs where people are supporting a bunch of leaches.

[MrFun]

I agree with LoTM for the most part.

Some posters in here are going too far in denigrating the total experience of being part of a congregation -- whether you are Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. One can have two coinciding, interrrelated motivations for being part of a congregation -- to have some spiritual connection with God, AND for social networking and support.

Participating in worship at a church, mosque, shul, or synagoue certainly is NOT lazy if you sincerely make an effort to actively participate with your congregation, and in addition, you can always become involved with your church, mosque, shul, or synagoue through various types of volunteer work.



And with the OP -- as others have already pointed out, this will likely be a chronic, never-ending issue. If she can't respect your difference with her in regards to religion, then she doesn't deserve you and you deserve someone much more considerate and much less narrow-minded.

[Zoid]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Church + Girlfriend problem.

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Ah, you seem to have missed the subtle irony of my jibe. Not only are there folks who approach G-d outside of organized religion, but there are hundreds of millions who are part of organized religion - but who never or rarely enter a "church" Christianity not being the only "organized" religion in the world. By a long shot.

Of course in my shul we dont go to be told what to feel. We discuss and question, and hold different opinions. I certainly dont share my Rabbis theological approach - hes a Maimonidean rationalist universalist, while I am more Rosenzwiegian existentialist. But its ok, we can share a community, without sharing the same theology. There are many things a religious community provides. Of course if you a follower of a faith tradition that relies less on community than mine does, thats fine for you.

Sorry, I missed your point. I just can´t stand bible thumpers and fundamentalists

And I´ve begun to explore my spirituality and the teachings of Buddha. I haven´t come very far though. I have a loong way to go before I can shed my anger and contempt for my fellow man... But I´m trying.

[Ben Kenobi]

Recently, every Friday night session, someone from the crowd (a pastor) will have God "talk" through him/her. And at the end of their "amazing/inspirational" speech, they ALWAYS say "thus sayeth the lord". When I first heard it, I was like "what the? thus sayeth the lord?, God would not say "sayeth!"".

Ok, I think I understand now, what you are referring to. Is this a Pentecostal church, Snoopy? I've been to Baptist prayer groups where everyone prays according to the holy spirit, and this seems no different. One person starts, and then everyone else picks up on what they said and continues until everyone is finished.

The second time I heard it, I tried not to laugh, and the 3rd and the 4th, with each passing time it happened, I became annoyed, why do they keep doing this, pretending that God is talking through one of the pastors? But from day 1, I have always known the answer, they simply want to encourage the members to do God's will; but this is just insulting.

Well, prophecy is a spiritual gift, so they really do believe that God is speaking through them at that point in time. They feel the holy spirit inside of them, and they give these speeches from the spirit. Do you believe that it is possible for God to speak through someone?

Anyway, on to my real problem, I am on the verge of discontinuing my attendance to church, I do not want to be apart of this charade anymore, I've had enough of it.

Unfortunately, my girlfriend (fiance), will take this incredibly seriously, she will take it as far as dumping me completely, she would never forgive me for it (ironic isn't it).

However, my point of view is that church is NOT NECCESSARY to believe in God, but my gf does not see it that way, she believes that you can only believe in God if you go to church.

Ok. First of all, you are correct, that you do not need to attend church in order to believe in God. However, you have to remember that Christians are not supposed to go at it alone. We are supposed to support one another in a community, which is what we find in the church.

Secondly, Christ himself established the church as the community of believers. So if you believe in Christ, you have to ask yourself why would he do this if there was nothing in church for Christians to attend?

It is starting to become clear to me, that she does not go to church for God, but she goes to church for church. And I would not be surprised if most women do. Not to sound sexist, but as far as I can tell, this is how it looks.

Have you asked her why she goes to church? Ask her about her own beliefs, I'd be very surprised if you haven't done this already.

Anyway, what should I do? Stop going to church, face endless screaming and fighting (I never argue, shout, scream or get violent, but she does) possibly ending a 7 year relationship or continue to go to church even though I know it's all ridiculous?

btw, talking to her about it won't work, I have tried that 2-3 times before, she ends up crying and depressed and I end up giving in and going to church just for her. But I just can't keep doing this for the rest of my life. It does not feel right.

Here's where priorities come in. You say that you have a 7 year relationship together. How much is that worth to you snoopy? If your girlfriend sincerely believes in this church, and you feel this 7 year relationship is worth your time, then you have a challenge. You are going to have to come to terms with this church or leave.

Now, you say that you've given up on this church, and I would say that I don't know if you have been to any bible studies, or functions in the church where you are on your own and not with your girlfriend. If she is worth so much to you, then you should do so on your own initiative to try to understand her own way of thinking.

On the other hand, you have to level with her about your doubts. Tell her that you are unhappy with this situation, and tell her that you need to resolve this to your satisfaction. If you start taking your own initiative to find out more about the church, then she can hardly fault you for your decision afterwards to stand or reject.

[The diplomat]

Re: Church + Girlfriend problem.

Originally posted by Sn00py
Recently, every Friday night session, someone from the crowd (a pastor) will have God "talk" through him/her. And at the end of their "amazing/inspirational" speech, they ALWAYS say "thus sayeth the lord". When I first heard it, I was like "what the? thus sayeth the lord?, God would not say "sayeth!"".

The fact that they add "thus sayeth the Lord" at the end is kinda weird. I come from a pentecostal church where people sometimes speak in tongues. After the person speaks in tongues, someone else usually translates into english but they never say "thus sayeth the Lord". We are capable of listening and discerning for ourselves if what we heard is from God or not. In every case that I have been to this Church, I believe the message was from God because it reiterated a truth from the Bible. But again, speaking in tongues is not something that happens at every service.

What kinds of messages did they give? Did the message sound biblical?

But I just can't keep doing this for the rest of my life. It does not feel right.

I think you have your own answer. If it does not feel right to you then you shouldn't continue the relationship. If your girlfriend is really into this church, she will expect you to be as well. What happens if she wants to get married? Would you continue to go to this church with her and "fake it"? Obviously not! If she is into this church and you are not, then the relationship will not work.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by binTravkin
On the church money topic - imagine the priest has 10 followers - he is with that on the same level of income as his followers.
Now take it to the usual count of people in a church - 50 to 100 and even more, and you get the picture..

Supposedly most of the tithe goes to maintaining the church, performing charitable acts, supporting missionary activities, etc..

I am against organized religion as a matter of principle, however, I would feel fairly well about a transparently run church (and they do exist especially the ones where the congression has the main say over the church's finances) with a priest who drives an inexpensive car. If the priest has a BMW then I wouldn't give him a thin dime and I'd urge others to do the same.

[Ben Kenobi]

Do so, invest your time in something valuable.

And church is merely a waste of time?

Although I agree with DRoseDARs, I would say the problem is deeper.

Your girlfriend is trying to control you, have you do as she likes in one of the most ugly ways - trying to relieve you of one of your basic (and constitutional) freedoms - freedom of thought.

No one can do so without cooperating. She wants her boyfriend to go to church with her, and if she is sincere, can't you understand that desire? Church is very important, and she probably sees snoopy refusing to go as a rejection of her.

After a month or two, you should be clear about whether it gets better and she has learned something, or not.

She'll either drop Snoopy like a hot potato, or she will work something out. It won't take a month for her to decide. I'd like to think if they've put in 7 years together that they at least try to make things work first.

[Jon Miller]

First, suggest going to a different church.

Say that you want to see what other ones are available (you can say you don't particularly like the Pastor's Sermons or something)

this is very common, and most faith communities can handle it

how you two raise children will be an issue

Why have you two been together for 7 years and not gotten married? It seems a long time, I can see this issue, are there other issues?

there is nothing wrong with tithe, God gives us life and every good thing, and he asks for us to return some of our labors to him... but as far as that goes I think tithe can go to any worthwhile cause (although I think properly it should go to helping your fellow man, physicially or spiritually)

not many churchs/pastors are rich, and the ones who are generally have church members who want t o go to a fancy church/have a rich pastor.. (it is a status thing for them)

most churchs I have been to are very poor

as it is, I must admit that I am not very good at tithing

Jon Miller

[Spec]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
Would you rather they say(eth), "Thus decreeyth the Lord" ?

Your girlfriend is a vapid bimbo if she honestly and truly believes that you can't believe in God if you don't go to church. Dump her before she steals your soul and sells it on eBay.

I agree...And a girl that goes to church cant be good at oral sex so...You know what to do.

Spec.