Church + Girlfriend problem.

[FrostyBoy]

I have yet another problem with the church I attend.

I attend because my girlfriend goes.

As for my belief, well, I am indifferent, I do not wish to rule out God or rule out No-God. I seek answers in God (prayer) the same I would seek for answers in DNA (if I had the means).


When I attend church, I am probably the most abservant and the one watching out for hidden messages. I'm always trying to understand the pastors and the way they function the church's daily activities.

Recently, every Friday night session, someone from the crowd (a pastor) will have God "talk" through him/her. And at the end of their "amazing/inspirational" speech, they ALWAYS say "thus sayeth the lord". When I first heard it, I was like "what the? thus sayeth the lord?, God would not say "sayeth!"".

The second time I heard it, I tried not to laugh, and the 3rd and the 4th, with each passing time it happened, I became annoyed, why do they keep doing this, pretending that God is talking through one of the pastors? But from day 1, I have always known the answer, they simply want to encourage the members to do God's will; but this is just insulting.

This is just one of the many things they do that do not make sense, or are just plain insulting. (If there is a God, otherwise its just plain foolishness).

Anyway, on to my real problem, I am on the verge of discontinuing my attendance to church, I do not want to be apart of this charade anymore, I've had enough of it.

Unfortunately, my girlfriend (fiance), will take this incredibly seriously, she will take it as far as dumping me completely, she would never forgive me for it (ironic isn't it).

However, my point of view is that church is NOT NECCESSARY to believe in God, but my gf does not see it that way, she believes that you can only believe in God if you go to church.

It is starting to become clear to me, that she does not go to church for God, but she goes to church for church. And I would not be surprised if most women do. Not to sound sexist, but as far as I can tell, this is how it looks.


Anyway, what should I do? Stop going to church, face endless screaming and fighting (I never argue, shout, scream or get violent, but she does) possibly ending a 7 year relationship or continue to go to church even though I know it's all ridiculous?

btw, talking to her about it won't work, I have tried that 2-3 times before, she ends up crying and depressed and I end up giving in and going to church just for her. But I just can't keep doing this for the rest of my life. It does not feel right.

[DRoseDARs]

Would you rather they say(eth), "Thus decreeyth the Lord" ?

Your girlfriend is a vapid bimbo if she honestly and truly believes that you can't believe in God if you don't go to church. Dump her before she steals your soul and sells it on eBay.

[alva]

Unfortunately, my girlfriend (fiance), will take this incredibly seriously, she will take it as far as dumping me completely, she would never forgive me for it (ironic isn't it).

You've just given the answer yourselves, Snoops.
Do you really think it will work out? I don't, I'm afraid...

This will be an issue for the rest of your lives, and one (if not both) will always be unhappy with the situation and always, one will have to cave in.
This isn't a case of one of the partners not liking a certain music band or something, espicially if she's that adamant(sp? that the right word?) about it.


PS: what I wouldn't give to have teh mad tact skilllz of DroseDARs.

[polarnomad]

Re: Church + Girlfriend problem.

Originally posted by Sn00py
Recently, every Friday night session, someone from the crowd (a pastor) will have God "talk" through him/her. And at the end of their "amazing/inspirational" speech, they ALWAYS say "thus sayeth the lord". When I first heard it, I was like "what the? thus sayeth the lord?, God would not say "sayeth!"".

The second time I heard it, I tried not to laugh, and the 3rd and the 4th, with each passing time it happened, I became annoyed, why do they keep doing this, pretending that God is talking through one of the pastors? But from day 1, I have always known the answer, they simply want to encourage the members to do God's will; but this is just insulting.

This is just one of the many things they do that do not make sense, or are just plain insulting. (If there is a God, otherwise its just plain foolishness).

If you find that the pastors' speeches inspirational, why get caught up on a word?

It sounds like you feel these people are somehow trying to mislead you by asserting that God talks through them. Perhaps they truely feel that some higher power is providing them with the inspiration to help their congregation. Perhaps it is a way for them to pass on the credit for what they say to God. Before you take any drastic measures, why not go talk to a few of these pastors and ask them about it. The pastors in my Grandparents' church in Pennsylvania were always glad to discuss issues with me, no matter how different my views were. Their reaction may go a long way towards helping you decide whether you want to remain within the community.

My 2 cents. Good luck with your decision.

[Winston]

Religious observance is strictly a matter of individual, personal choice. You cannot force it upon others, it makes no sense. If it were me, and there was no chance of my growing accustomed to the "strange" things at church services mentioned, I'd stop attending those services sooner rather than later.

As for the effect of that happening on the relationship between you and your fiancee, there really is no choice as I see it. You must do what you feel is right for you vis-a-vis your religious practice. If she is unable to accept that basic fact and at least tolerate your decision, if not agreeing with it, then I must say the relationship cannot last. It would be based in part on dishonesty and unfairness, and that is not workable the way I see it.

I'm sorry.

[binTravkin]

I am on the verge of discontinuing my attendance to church, I do not want to be apart of this charade anymore, I've had enough of it.

Do so, invest your time in something valuable.

Your girlfriend is a vapid bimbo if she honestly and truly believes that you can't believe in God if you don't go to church. Dump her before she steals your soul and sells it on eBay.

Although I agree with DRoseDARs, I would say the problem is deeper.
Your girlfriend is trying to control you, have you do as she likes in one of the most ugly ways - trying to relieve you of one of your basic (and constitutional) freedoms - freedom of thought.
I doubt it will (or even does) only extend to church matters, so my opinion is you should first try to be strong and not succumb to her will.
Be a man.
If she starts whining about how you are heretic and unbeliever, simply ignore her.
If it gets unbearable, go out somewhere, doing preferably neutral thing (not going to bar or to your ex-gf), so she doesn't get offended.
After a month or two, you should be clear about whether it gets better and she has learned something, or not.

If it doesn't get better, leave her by all means.
Once you get married/get kids it will be too late.

[polarnomad]

Originally posted by Winston
As for the effect of that happening on the relationship between you and your fiancee, there really is no choice as I see it. You must do what you feel is right for you vis-a-vis your religious practice. If she is unable to accept that basic fact and at least tolerate your decision, if not agreeing with it, then I must say the relationship cannot last. It would be based in part on dishonesty and unfairness, and that is not workable the way I see it.

QFT

Though I would be loathe to end a long standing relationship too quickly. Tough decisions ahead...

[FrostyBoy]

Thanks all.

btw, Plarnomad, I placed amazing/inspirational in quotes, to indicate that it is what their speeches were MEANT to portray, but as for me, I do not find them inspirational or amazing.

The other thing I don't agree with is this 10% tithing. When did God come up with the idea of "10%"? why 10%? and how does one work out what 10% is of what you own? What if you owned 533,331 plants, how are you going to work out how much 10% of that is? No, I refuse to believe it. I do not believe God would ask of people with such a flimsy request.
Besides, it's quite contradicting, why does God say 10% but Jesus says 100%?

I'm going to stop paying my money to the church. Instead, I might sponsor 6 children in a 3rd world country, I think it has more value there than feeding church members with 2000 curry puffs.

[polarnomad]

Originally posted by Sn00py
btw, Plarnomad, I placed amazing/inspirational in quotes, to indicate that it is what their speeches were MEANT to portray, but as for me, I do not find them inspirational or amazing.

Then I guess your decision is already made.

Personally, what I miss most about church is the community of people that attend.

[binTravkin]

I'm going to stop paying my money to the church. Instead, I might sponsor 6 children in a 3rd world country, I think it has more value there than feeding church members with 2000 curry puffs.

Do not sponsor 3rd world countries.
As one german philosopher pointed out, the gifts sent to them is their biggest enemy for two reasons:
- most of them go to the militant regimes anyway
- those which get to people is one the causes of starvation for economical reasons - it slows the development of local agriculture (also for the reason above).

Instead invest in yourself maybe - try to look better, learn something new, travel somewhere (should help you get a new fiance, if this one fails to change her thoughts ).

[Tim_Augustus]

Does she know where you stand wrt the church? rather than just quitting church etc you should perhaps have a "The TalkTM" and explain your position and feelings in this matter. if the gf can't deal with it, then your relationship may not last longterm anyway... or you'll turn into a bitter, twisted old shell of a man

[FrostyBoy]

Tim, I stated that I had already tried the talk, a few times. And yes I am concerned about the turning into a bitter twisted old man part of my life.

It's difficult, I like to be alone (do my own thing, freedom, etc), but I just cannot go through this life without having children.

binTravkin, Ok if what you say is true, then I need to put my money into something other than myself. How about WWF? Infact, I would prefer to do WWF than WorldVision (or whatever it is). Saving the near extinction Animals/Mammals are more important than saving overpopulated humans.

Yes.. I am going to do this.

[binTravkin]

binTravkin, Ok if what you say is true, then I need to put my money into something other than myself. How about WWF? Infact, I would prefer to do WWF than WorldVision (or whatever it is). Saving the near extinction Animals/Mammals are more important than saving overpopulated humans.

Heh, well, if you really want to invest in something else than yourself, then do so, but I would in your place invest in your look, education - those are things one always need.
Unless you're actually a photomodel and overeducated..

Well, you could also help out your parents or a cousine who's having trouble to get the money for college, or something, I dunno.

There is always place for goodwill..

My opinion is that financing any of those funds and organisations is a waste of money - you can never know where your money goes and they aren't going to change anything (like WWF or help programs for african people) unless people themselves start to get more conscious about the problems they try to fix.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by binTravkin

Do not sponsor 3rd world countries.
As one german philosopher pointed out, the gifts sent to them is their biggest enemy for two reasons:
- most of them go to the militant regimes anyway
- those which get to people is one the causes of starvation for economical reasons - it slows the development of local agriculture (also for the reason above).

Instead invest in yourself maybe - try to look better, learn something new, travel somewhere (should help you get a new fiance, if this one fails to change her thoughts ).

Are you ****ing kidding me, bT? You are truly a horrible person if that is what you belive. What are you some sort of fascist darwinian? Helping third world countries is our ****ing responsibility if you do it through proper channels and in the right way (helping them to help themselves; digging wells and stuff like that).

[Zoid]

Sn00py, leave her before it gets out of hand. Clearly she has no respect for your needs and beliefs.